rusty_halo (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rusty_halo) wrote2008-01-25 06:59 pm
rusty_halo) wrote2008-01-25 06:59 pm
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Since I haven't gotten my rant on in quite a while: Doctor Who fandom memes that piss me off
I hate getting into arguments, but Doctor Who fandom is driving me fucking insane. So I'm going to rant here on my own journal, where no one has to see it if they don't want to.
Doctor Who fandom memes, and why they piss me off.
The Doctor was horribly mean to poor Harriet Jones.
Harriet Jones shot a retreating enemy in the back. She annihilated an entire society, including those who hadn't been fighting. Can you imagine if this was common practice? War would never end until one side had been completely destroyed; no one would ever surrender because they'd know they'd just get killed anyway.
Sure, it's easy for a human audience to shrug it off and say, "Well, they were just aliens," but the Doctor isn't human. We're all aliens to him and he saw one alien species behaving badly to another, and he did what he always does: put a stop to it. That's who the Doctor is, someone who sees injustice and acts to end it.
I like and sympathize with Harriet Jones, but she did something wrong, and she paid the price.
If you want to complain that the Doctor has no right to go interfering in alien societies, well, go ahead, but I don't see why you even watch the show, because all the Doctor does is interfere in alien societies.
People also like to complain that the Master's election as Prime Minister was a direct result of the Doctor bringing down Harriet Jones. It's a nice irony, but come on. If the Doctor could bring Jones down with six words, you really think the Master couldn't with fifteen satellites?
The Doctor and Rose deserved to be torn apart in "Doomsday" because of their callous behavior in previous episodes.
Oh, honestly. They're in love, they've been through harrowing events and come out stronger, they're traveling around the universe having adventures, and they're giddy and happy to be together. And, being that one of them is the Doctor, they run into trouble. What do they do?
A) Ignore the trouble and go off somewhere else to have more giddy fun.
B) Fix the trouble, help whoever they can, and continue to enjoy themselves while they do it.
C) Realize that the universe is a terrible awful place, and mope around being miserable for an entire season.
A) would be the callous response that a lot of fandom seems to think they did. B) would be the simultaneously compassionate and fun response they actually chose. C) would be the extremely depressing response that a lot of fandom wishes they'd chosen.
I have no problem with the Doctor and Rose being happy together and refusing to hide it. They don't have to help anyone, but they choose to. When someone saves your life, are you going to complain that they're not taking the situation seriously enough, or are you just going to be fucking glad that someone saved your life?
Seriously. They deserve all the fun they can get. The Doctor has saved the universe more times that I can count, and Rose did her own heart-of-the-TARDIS-absorbing universe-saving thing very recently too. This is the first happiness the Doctor's felt since he lost Gallifrey, and I can't believe there are bitter fans begrudging it because... what? They don't like the 'ship? They want everyone to be grim and miserable all the time? They've got some kind of Puritan idea that happiness must be punished?
As for "They brought about their own destruction," please. Queen Victoria brought about their destruction by being close-minded and afraid of anything beyond her own understanding. Torchwood brought about their destruction by being stupid and power hungry. The Doctor and Rose didn't do anything wrong. If they hadn't been there, Victoria would have been bitten and Britain would be ruled by werewolves. (LOL.) Instead, the Doctor and Rose showed up and saved the country, and what did they get? Banished. Torchwood resulted, and Torchwood tore them apart, which is tragic, and ironic, but it's certainly not their fault.
The Doctor brought up Rose constantly throughout season three.
He really didn't. He brought up Rose two times at the very beginning of the season, when he was still reeling from having lost her. Once in "Smith and Jones" and once in "The Shakespeare Code," the first two episodes.
He also said her name when other people asked about her--Donna in "The Runaway Bride" and Jack in "Utopia." Then the Master brought her up in "Last of the Time Lords," Martha brought her up in "Gridlock," and John Smith drew her in "Human Nature." So the show certainly didn't forget about her, but neither was the Doctor constantly yacking about her. The Doctor himself, of his own volition, only brought her up twice.
And why shouldn't she be mentioned? She was the first person the Doctor truly connected with since the Time War. Whether you like it or not, she had a huge impact on his life, and it would be ridiculous for the show to brush it off and pretend she wasn't important.
The Doctor never appreciated Martha.
Oh, except all those times he said "Thank you" and told her how much he appreciated her.
When people say this, what they mean is "The Doctor never fucked Martha." Which is a ship-war argument and is completely immune to logic.
The Doctor brings death and destruction wherever he goes, and leaves disaster behind him for others to clean up.
Oh, now this one is just silly. The Doctor goes where there is already (about to be) death and destruction, finds himself in the middle of it, and does what he can to help. It's a simple matter of cause and effect. The Doctor doesn't cause the tragedy; he just finds himself in bad situations and makes them better than they would've been without him. This doesn't stop people who only see a small part of the picture from assuming that the Doctor must be responsible, but they're just plain wrong.
As for leaving a mess behind--well, the mess was going to be there anyway. He's already taken the time to help the situation, right whatever wrong was going on; why should this imply an additional obligation to stick around and rebuild? It's not his place to go around rebuilding everyone else's societies anyway, and part of what the Doctor does is teach others how to help themselves. That would hardly work if he just hovered around forever doing everything for them.
The Doctor really thinks he's a god, his behavior is unacceptably arrogant, and he needs to be brought down.
Oh my god, what show are these people watching? He knows perfectly well that he isn't a god. He knew it when Rose was torn away from him forever. He knew it when he couldn't bring Astrid back. He knew it when he had to kill his entire species in order to save the universe. Seriously, if he were a god, he'd have been able to stop these horrible things from happening.
But what makes him the Doctor is that he keeps trying anyway. He's not a god, but in nearly every situation he encounters, he's the most powerful being in the room. This isn't arrogance; it's fact. He accepts that (to paraphrase Peter Parker's Uncle Ben) this power comes with responsibility. He acts to the best of his ability, even though he's not perfect, because he knows it's better to do something than to do nothing. How can you complain about arrogance when it manifests as "trying to save as many people as possible"?
Sometimes he screws up. Sometimes he does everything he possibly can but it's still not enough. Just about every time, though, he helps. He makes the situation better than it would have been without him. He can't save everyone on the Titanic, but he saves a few passengers and, oh yeah, the entire Earth. Do people really think the situation would have been better if the Doctor hadn't "arrogantly" tried to help? Because we'd all be dead if he hadn't.
As far as him deserving to be brought down? No, he doesn't deserve it. But he gets brought down anyway, or did you miss the look on his face when Astrid turned into stardust? When he realized Rose was gone forever? When the Master died in his arms? Every time he thinks of Gallifrey?
***
The other thing that's annoying me today: the fact that every time Doctor Who shows up on Fandom Wank, it turns into a big Rose-bashing extravaganza. It's just an excuse for a bunch of ugly grudgewank from bitter Martha fans, who are far more wanky than those they're mocking.
***
(Comments of whatever sort are fine, but as this is more of a rant than a reasoned argument meant to convince others, I'll probably not respond to anything too argumentative.)
[Cross-posted to InsaneJournal]
Doctor Who fandom memes, and why they piss me off.
The Doctor was horribly mean to poor Harriet Jones.
Harriet Jones shot a retreating enemy in the back. She annihilated an entire society, including those who hadn't been fighting. Can you imagine if this was common practice? War would never end until one side had been completely destroyed; no one would ever surrender because they'd know they'd just get killed anyway.
Sure, it's easy for a human audience to shrug it off and say, "Well, they were just aliens," but the Doctor isn't human. We're all aliens to him and he saw one alien species behaving badly to another, and he did what he always does: put a stop to it. That's who the Doctor is, someone who sees injustice and acts to end it.
I like and sympathize with Harriet Jones, but she did something wrong, and she paid the price.
If you want to complain that the Doctor has no right to go interfering in alien societies, well, go ahead, but I don't see why you even watch the show, because all the Doctor does is interfere in alien societies.
People also like to complain that the Master's election as Prime Minister was a direct result of the Doctor bringing down Harriet Jones. It's a nice irony, but come on. If the Doctor could bring Jones down with six words, you really think the Master couldn't with fifteen satellites?
The Doctor and Rose deserved to be torn apart in "Doomsday" because of their callous behavior in previous episodes.
Oh, honestly. They're in love, they've been through harrowing events and come out stronger, they're traveling around the universe having adventures, and they're giddy and happy to be together. And, being that one of them is the Doctor, they run into trouble. What do they do?
A) Ignore the trouble and go off somewhere else to have more giddy fun.
B) Fix the trouble, help whoever they can, and continue to enjoy themselves while they do it.
C) Realize that the universe is a terrible awful place, and mope around being miserable for an entire season.
A) would be the callous response that a lot of fandom seems to think they did. B) would be the simultaneously compassionate and fun response they actually chose. C) would be the extremely depressing response that a lot of fandom wishes they'd chosen.
I have no problem with the Doctor and Rose being happy together and refusing to hide it. They don't have to help anyone, but they choose to. When someone saves your life, are you going to complain that they're not taking the situation seriously enough, or are you just going to be fucking glad that someone saved your life?
Seriously. They deserve all the fun they can get. The Doctor has saved the universe more times that I can count, and Rose did her own heart-of-the-TARDIS-absorbing universe-saving thing very recently too. This is the first happiness the Doctor's felt since he lost Gallifrey, and I can't believe there are bitter fans begrudging it because... what? They don't like the 'ship? They want everyone to be grim and miserable all the time? They've got some kind of Puritan idea that happiness must be punished?
As for "They brought about their own destruction," please. Queen Victoria brought about their destruction by being close-minded and afraid of anything beyond her own understanding. Torchwood brought about their destruction by being stupid and power hungry. The Doctor and Rose didn't do anything wrong. If they hadn't been there, Victoria would have been bitten and Britain would be ruled by werewolves. (LOL.) Instead, the Doctor and Rose showed up and saved the country, and what did they get? Banished. Torchwood resulted, and Torchwood tore them apart, which is tragic, and ironic, but it's certainly not their fault.
The Doctor brought up Rose constantly throughout season three.
He really didn't. He brought up Rose two times at the very beginning of the season, when he was still reeling from having lost her. Once in "Smith and Jones" and once in "The Shakespeare Code," the first two episodes.
He also said her name when other people asked about her--Donna in "The Runaway Bride" and Jack in "Utopia." Then the Master brought her up in "Last of the Time Lords," Martha brought her up in "Gridlock," and John Smith drew her in "Human Nature." So the show certainly didn't forget about her, but neither was the Doctor constantly yacking about her. The Doctor himself, of his own volition, only brought her up twice.
And why shouldn't she be mentioned? She was the first person the Doctor truly connected with since the Time War. Whether you like it or not, she had a huge impact on his life, and it would be ridiculous for the show to brush it off and pretend she wasn't important.
The Doctor never appreciated Martha.
Oh, except all those times he said "Thank you" and told her how much he appreciated her.
When people say this, what they mean is "The Doctor never fucked Martha." Which is a ship-war argument and is completely immune to logic.
The Doctor brings death and destruction wherever he goes, and leaves disaster behind him for others to clean up.
Oh, now this one is just silly. The Doctor goes where there is already (about to be) death and destruction, finds himself in the middle of it, and does what he can to help. It's a simple matter of cause and effect. The Doctor doesn't cause the tragedy; he just finds himself in bad situations and makes them better than they would've been without him. This doesn't stop people who only see a small part of the picture from assuming that the Doctor must be responsible, but they're just plain wrong.
As for leaving a mess behind--well, the mess was going to be there anyway. He's already taken the time to help the situation, right whatever wrong was going on; why should this imply an additional obligation to stick around and rebuild? It's not his place to go around rebuilding everyone else's societies anyway, and part of what the Doctor does is teach others how to help themselves. That would hardly work if he just hovered around forever doing everything for them.
The Doctor really thinks he's a god, his behavior is unacceptably arrogant, and he needs to be brought down.
Oh my god, what show are these people watching? He knows perfectly well that he isn't a god. He knew it when Rose was torn away from him forever. He knew it when he couldn't bring Astrid back. He knew it when he had to kill his entire species in order to save the universe. Seriously, if he were a god, he'd have been able to stop these horrible things from happening.
But what makes him the Doctor is that he keeps trying anyway. He's not a god, but in nearly every situation he encounters, he's the most powerful being in the room. This isn't arrogance; it's fact. He accepts that (to paraphrase Peter Parker's Uncle Ben) this power comes with responsibility. He acts to the best of his ability, even though he's not perfect, because he knows it's better to do something than to do nothing. How can you complain about arrogance when it manifests as "trying to save as many people as possible"?
Sometimes he screws up. Sometimes he does everything he possibly can but it's still not enough. Just about every time, though, he helps. He makes the situation better than it would have been without him. He can't save everyone on the Titanic, but he saves a few passengers and, oh yeah, the entire Earth. Do people really think the situation would have been better if the Doctor hadn't "arrogantly" tried to help? Because we'd all be dead if he hadn't.
As far as him deserving to be brought down? No, he doesn't deserve it. But he gets brought down anyway, or did you miss the look on his face when Astrid turned into stardust? When he realized Rose was gone forever? When the Master died in his arms? Every time he thinks of Gallifrey?
***
The other thing that's annoying me today: the fact that every time Doctor Who shows up on Fandom Wank, it turns into a big Rose-bashing extravaganza. It's just an excuse for a bunch of ugly grudgewank from bitter Martha fans, who are far more wanky than those they're mocking.
***
(Comments of whatever sort are fine, but as this is more of a rant than a reasoned argument meant to convince others, I'll probably not respond to anything too argumentative.)
[Cross-posted to InsaneJournal]
no subject
A few comments:
1) I like Harriet Jones, but the Sycorax were retreating, and that makes what she did murder. Sympathetic characters can commit terrible acts -- what Harriet did isn't right just because we like her. I think the Doctor had as much right to take her down as he did to defend the Earth from the Sycorax in the first place -- which is actually, none at all when you think about it. The Doctor does what he does not because he has the right, but because it's the right thing to do. And I love the reminder that as much as the Doctor loves humanity, he's not going to turn a blind eye to the murder of another species that was no longer in conflict with Earth. Go Ten, says I.
2) I have never understood why the Doctor and Rose are perceived as so freakin' awful for enjoying their adventures through time and space. That's one of the reasons I love them -- because they do enjoy themselves so much together. And while Rose's joke was a little stupid in Tooth & Claw, I certainly don't think some irreverence meant she "deserved" to have her heart broken. Torchwood's imperialist greed had far more direct responsibility for Rose being trapped in Pete's World, especially since it happened because she and the Doctor were in the process of saving the world from Torchwood's near-destruction of it. The people who make the actual decision to punch a hole through dimensions out of greed have more responsibility than the people who made a bad joke nearly 150 years ago. Crazy idea, eh?
3) The Doctor actually doesn't bring Rose up in Gridlock -- Martha references her. The Doctor brings up Rose himself all of twice in series three, in just the first two episodes, and yet somehow, this is perceived to be "constant" and that the Doctor is somehow stuck on Rose. Honestly, I think the Doctor will always miss Rose, but he's pretty much gotten over the worst of the grief by the mid-point of the series at the latest. Much as I loathe that Dalek two-parter, I think encountering the Daleks again and trying to help them change is actually healing for him in terms of all he's lost thanks to the Daleks (at least until the Master brings the pain of Gallifrey back again). I think it's notable that it's after this encounter that the Doctor gives up the "just one trip" bit with Martha and makes her a full-fledged companion. The Doctor is able to move on, IMO...
4)...but the problem I guess is that the Doctor never moves on to Martha romantically. So therefore, all of his hugs and his thanks and his trusting Martha to take care of human him in 1913 and having faith in Martha to spread the story that would save the world -- none of that matters, because the Doctor doesn't return Martha's romantic feelings and somehow, the only way one can appreciate someone is to fall in love with them. That argument is just totally ridiculous to me -- you have to actively ignore what happens on-screen to make it. Like the Doctor saying thank you a lot!
5) The usual situation is people are dying, the Doctor shows up, he and his companions help save the day, and people stop dying. Not everything the Doctor does is right, but what about the responsibility of the people in the situation to make the right choices? Don't they have at least as much responsibility for what happens next, if not more? If the Doctor helps clean up your mess, why is it his job to keep you from making another one -- isn't that your job?
6) Which goes to the final point -- the Doctor isn't a god, and he knows it. He does his best, but he still loses. The courage of the Doctor is he keeps trying. I don't see how the better alternative would be for the Doctor to believe he can't make a difference when he can, or not act rather than act to save lives. The Doctor makes changes in history every time he saves someone or cures someone or stops someone -- and with his level of knowledge, even choosing not to act is a choice that will affect others. I think the Doctor acts not because he thinks he's a god, but because he thinks he's right -- and most of the time, he is.
Ahh, that was fun -- although mostly just repeating your well-stated points. But still fun! ;-)
no subject
no subject
You totally owe me an anti-Martha rant now. I hear bits of it every weekend; just write it all up in your LJ! ;)
The Doctor actually doesn't bring Rose up in Gridlock -- Martha references her.
Dammit, I knew I was going to get that wrong! I actually almost asked you about it on the phone, but I didn't want my boss to hear. Is there a transcript site out there somewhere? I need to be able to fact-check these things. :P
no subject
I know, I know on the Martha thing. You're so determined to get me in the thick of it.
I know how many times the Doctor brings up Rose in series 3 because I've gotten into the "The Doctor doesn't appreciate Martha!" argument at least 2 or 3 times on Outpost Gallifrey. It goes something like this:
"The Doctor is responsible for Martha's poor self-esteem -- he's always talking about Rose!"
"The Doctor only brings up Rose twice, in the first two episodes of the series."
"The Doctor constantly brings up Rose! Poor Martha!"
"He doesn't reference Rose after the second episode!"
"But he's always talking about Rose! Why can't he appreciate Martha!"
"The Doctor thanks Martha, he hugs her, he trusts her..."
"Why oh why does he treat Martha so badly! Martha ftw!"
I exaggerate, but not by much. My favorite argument there was that the Doctor must be putting Martha down OFF-SCREEN, thus invalidating any on-screen appreciation, because otherwise why would Martha feel second-best? It couldn't possibly have anything to do with, say, an unrequited crush....? No, that could never make someone feel second-best, it's gotta be the Doctor's fault, that jerk.
Second-hand forum arguments -- fascinating, I know! ;-)
no subject
you aren't exaggerating at all! (I on the other hand...:p)
and I totally agree with everything the OP says.
no subject
no subject
There's one right here: http://who-transcripts.atspace.com/
Most of S3 isn't up yet (and neither is TC or VotD), but they have got quite a lot. :D
no subject