The fandom changes, the wank stays the same

[rusty_halo]

It's been so long since I've posted in an active fandom that I forgot what it was like to have trolls in my LJ.

Apparently the Doctor was Martha's bad boyfriend, I'm a bad feminist for liking him, and I'm just blinded by David Tennant's abs.

Oh, fandom. You are too cute.

[Cross-posted to InsaneJournal]

Comments

[x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com]

I need to start pimping my wouldbewrong community that I rescued from certain death after the mod left. Martha needs some lovin'.

Also... I cannot fathom how much fandom wank there is in Doctor Who. I thought STAR WARS was bad, dear gods, and the amount of fuss made over Anakin/Padme OTP, both positive and negative, was sickening.

Batshit, man. Batshit.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

wouldbewrong! Dude, now that's a bad boyfriend.

[herself_nyc]

We never even SEE his abs.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Hee. I know. It's the same old argument though: "You think a character is hot, therefore all your arguments are invalid!"

[netweight]

You evil rape apologist.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I know! Where do I go to turn in my feminist credentials?

[bubonicplague.livejournal.com]

Hahahahahahaha.

Really, that's all. That's just funny.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I'm going to see everything through the lens of Spike fandom for the rest of my fannish life, aren't I? Apparently you never forget your first. :P

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Was he ever Martha's boyfriend? I mean, I did cheer when she went off on her own because her infatuation wasn't in her best interests. I understood her infatuation but ultimately, he just wasn't that into her.

And he was being something of a jerk to both Martha and Jack. I didn't think it was a bad reflection on Martha or Jack (or The Doctor), but saw it as sort of The Doctor's story that ties hurt him because in the end he loses people. And he's still hurting over past (and present) losses. I rather liked it when Martha found herself, as I thought that was the point of her story.

But then, I don't strongly ship anyone in the Who-verse. I'm easy that way.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, he was never her boyfriend, but the crazy Martha fans I linked to are doing a variation on the "bad boyfriend" fan argument. Like "Spike was Buffy's 'bad boyfriend'" or "Logan was Veronica's 'bad boyfriend.'"

The Doctor was never actually Martha's boyfriend, but the argument goes the same way: male character I don't like was never properly deferential to female character I do like, therefore he is just like those motorcycle guys in black leather who pick up a girl, take her for a spin, then cheat on her, use her, dump her, and break her heart.

This argument rarely has any but the most superficial correlation to what actually happened in canon.

I share your very sane interpretation of the Doctor, Jack, and Martha's stories. Apparently this makes us evil anti-feminist rape apologists. Who knew? (But then we're Spike fans so it should've already been obvious.)

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

So, I have absolutely no interest in “Dr. Who” (old or new) and the only reason I watched that one season is because I love Christopher Eccleston. This isn’t a slam, just a reflection on where I personally am coming from and to suggest that I am really, really neutral about DW fanwars: and wow, those people who commented in your journal are kind of CRAZY! (Plus, it seems like, as a former Spike fan, you need to go into the LJ equivalent of a witness protection program :P)

Also, you should see “State of Play” someday, because John Simm was really, really good in that!

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they are definitely the lunatic fringe. Except they are loud and cranky enough to dominate large swaths of DW fandom.

I kind of love that meta I wrote about Spike five years ago is still managing to piss people off. >:)

"State of Play" is at the top of my "to watch" list. I keep hearing how good it is, and obviously I can't get enough of John Simm.

[soundingsea.livejournal.com]

Ahaha. Oh, fandom. Never change.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

It never will!

[queenofattolia.livejournal.com]

What's wrong with people? I mean, really - don't they have any self-awareness at all?

And yes, I'm having the bad Buffy flashbacks now.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I'm finding it pretty amusing to point and laugh at the crazy people. The more I ignore them, the more batshit their comments become. Cute little attention-seeking trolls.

[raskazzptitsa.livejournal.com]

Does David Tennant even have abs? He always struck me as fairly elfin, like his weight is measured in gumdrops and jellybeans. Of all his good qualities, I didn't think beefcake was among them. Are people just cutting and pasting their old Spike arguments? Can we look forward to stuff about how the Doctor is an evil rapist who murdered thousands of people for fun and profit and how if we like him, we're one step away from writing mushy letters to serial killers in prison?

[queenofattolia.livejournal.com]

Bwah.

[paratti.livejournal.com]

Only if David Fury becomes a Who fan.

[jomel10.livejournal.com]

OMG :D Kay, just read your rant for the first time and, seriously, I love you. May sound a tad odd to say that but you have posted EVERYTHING I have ever wanted to say but have never damned cos I didnt want Martha fans/Doctor haters attacking me. I salute you Sir for your bravery! I am sick to the back teeth of people slagging the Doctor off for not behaving very humanely. Well, you know what people? HE ISN'T HUMAN!!! He's always been a bit high and mighty. One went to beat a guy to death but was stopped by his companion. Seven was so manipulative to his companion Ace that he took her to an old house that had terrified her as a kid just to see what scared her so much! He could be an arse. And that is all part of his character and why I love him so much. He has layers people, layers! Sorry that oldskool get all superior on you, im oldskool myself but I would never say people have to watch the classic series or their views don't matter! That's just insane.

I think half the problems people may have with Ten, esp if they havent seen the whole series, is cos they came to the show with Nine and he is just, well, not Doctorish!! He's too human. Ten is more alien, sees things differently to humans. And thats the way the Doctor should be. Nine was very out of character. I saw no four, or five, or two in Nine. I see all his past lives in Ten.

Martha fans, should the Doctor have kissed Marthas feet every ep? You know, there were times when he didnt thank Tegan every episode, or Romana or Sarah. He still cared a great deal about them. He didnt want to get as close to Martha cos he had recently lost the love of his lives. Whether you (or I) like the fact that Rose meant that much to him is immaterial. She clearly did. He loved her to bits and was devasted at her loss and thus was nervous about letting another human get to close. Reasonable I would say. And you could see at the end of LOTTL that he felt bloody guilty, knew he had acted wrongly towards her. And DAvid Tennant has said in an interview that that is something Ten is gonna want to address in series 4. So, you should all be happy! To be fair, nothing Ten did to Martha was anywhere near as bad as the way Nine treated Mickey and Jackie. He bullied them. Superior bastard!!! ;)

God help the Torchwood team if they dont all bow to the alter of Martha!

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Hee, thanks! Yeah, the Doctor's dark side is part of why I love him. Flawless characters are boring.

I did think it was kind of funny how Nine took Rose to see the destruction of Earth as her first adventure. And then he returned her home a year late and wouldn't even have tea with Jackie. But Ten is sooooo much more insensitive!

Man, I can't wait to see the wank when Martha shows up and other characters have the gall to speak lines that aren't about how awesome Martha is!

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

David Tennant has abs? I like him just fine, but abs?

[psubrat.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! This made me laugh out loud. Sorry.

[psubrat.livejournal.com]

I'm not surprised that you've been wanked. What I am surprised about is the bad feminist remarks you've gotten because you were a Spike fan. Give me a break.

As for David Tennant's abs, I don't think we've ever seen them...I would certainly remember something like that. I love Christopher Eccleston, but the image of his bare chest in "Dalek" will forever be branded into my brain, and not in a good way. But because I'm a fan, and remember seeing Christopher bare chested on TV, shouldn't mean my opinions are worth less than someone else. Geez.

Again, I say, I don't get it. Ten wasn't a bad boyfriend because he was never her boyfriend to begin with!!

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Hee. I know. It's just the same old wacky anti-Spike arguments with a slightly new twist.

[redeem147.livejournal.com]

By 'bad' I assume they mean 'hot'.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

It would certainly make more sense that way.

Crazy Fan Bingo!

[jaydk.livejournal.com]

You're almost there! You've got:

1) The superior nature of Old Who fandom (so well represented, eh?)
2) Accusations of preferring deferential female characters because the Doctor is occasionally a jerk (the logic, it twists! it folds!)
3) The crime of being a Spike fan 100 years ago -- please to stop offering opinions in an entirely different fandom
4) Your "habit" of finding fictional male characters attractive -- the horror, the horror! (and if anyone thinks there's no Doctor/Master in Old Who fandom, boy are they missing a lot of the stuff out there)
5) And best of all, the one, the only, the rejoinder against which no possible response can stand: BATSHIT. Bow down and acknowledge your defeat by the genius inherent within that word, with which all counter opinions can be dismissed without, you know, reason and logic and argument and all that stuff.

I wonder if there's a retreat in the offing back to the "sane" corner of fandom anytime soon? Cause honestly, how can you miss them if they never leave? ;-)

Re: Crazy Fan Bingo!

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Jane, have I mentioned recently that you are *awesome*?

So which crazy fan arguments am I missing? Just a few more trolls and I could have BINGO!

[cindergal.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to say that your journal has given me hours of reading pleasure today. Hee!

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I haven't had this much fun with my LJ in a long time. :)