Wah

[rusty_halo]

Angel spoilers. Spike stuff in the last paragraph.

Good news: blond.

Bad news: human.

Dammit. No. I want my vampires, y'know, VAMPIRES. None of this stupid boring pansy human crap.

This could still be wrong, right? I mean, it's not an exact quote. Maybe the reporter just made it up?

Comments

[paratti.livejournal.com]

It could easily be wrong.
It's not an exact quote, it could be standard journalistic wrongness.
Better a human than a ghost.
And in the rules of the Jossverse if he's human he might get a moment of happiness before it's brutally taken away, maybe even a couple of eppys worth.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Maybe the writer was reading too much fanfic and got confused. I can hope.

Human ... ghost ... Yeah, human better. But still. Yuck.

Spike will never get a moment of happiness. Remember, we thought he'd get treated well once he got a soul? The rules of the Jossverse always adjust themselves accordingly when it comes to Spike; the ultimate, overriding Spike rule is that he never gets to be happy or to be treated like a person whose feelings matter, no matter what.

[miggy.livejournal.com]

There's only two things I like about the human possibility:

1) It'd piss off Angel
2) He'd finally be in the magic caste that can do no wrong and has their good deeds recognized, instead of the underclass that needs to be beaten down lest they step out of line

And it'd piss off Angel. Did I mention that it'd piss off Angel? Because it would. And it'd knock him off balance like a haymaker to the nose.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but the Spike I love is a demon. Why should I care about some human with Spike's face and memories parading around, maybe being happy? It's not the Spike I cared about, the Spike who struggled to change himself without a soul, who resisted torture for Dawn and Buffy, who took care of Dawn all summer and who refused to allow WHAT he was to dictate who he would be.

So "Spike" becomes one of the oppressors instead of the oppressees. I'm supposed to cheer? I don't think so.

I liked watching Spike struggle. I don't want to watch him magically forgiven either; I just want him treated fairly. But again, this isn't even Spike. Hell, S7 Spilliam wasn't even Spike either. :(

Yeah, maybe he'll piss off Angel. Here's hoping.

I'm so sick of this Buffyverse idealization of the normal. Either Spike being human will make Angel jealous, because being 'normal' is so ideal and wonderful ... even though all it really means is sunlight and aging and icky bodily functions. Or else they'll get over the idealization of the normal thing, and Spike will still suffer even though he's human. Either way, those of us who identified with Spike's position as freak and outsider and going to lose out.

[miggy.livejournal.com]

Honestly? My reasons for not minding the human thing (as opposed to the very good reasons you give in your comment) are very shallow. I've long since concluded that the real characters are being explored in fanfic, since I have no idea who the hell the people are parading around my screen. I have very little emotional attachment to the characters in S7, because they're all either new annoying brats being forced on us, or they're shadows of their former selves.

So if humanity lets me see JM acting happy and snarky again, playing the part of the gadfly outsider (although for moral reasons, not biological) who points out when people are full of shit, then I'm okay with it, I guess. The stories that could have been told... well, I find them in fanfic. The horrific worldviews espoused by ME will never go away, so I'll watch when the particulars of the episodes are good enough to outweigh them. And for that, happy/snarky beats depressed/Buffywhipped any day of the week.

(It helps that I moved onto the acceptance stage over grieving over the corpse of a once-good show way back around the time of "Normal Again.")

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I think your POV is probably a lot healthier than mine. Unfortunately I have a very all-or-nothing obsessive type of personality. Either I care immensely, or I don't care at all. I'd like very much to stop caring about BtVS, because pretty much all it's done since mid-season six is upset me. The problem is that if I stopped caring about the show, I'd also lose interest in fic. And I don't want to lose interest in fic, because then what am I going to do with my evenings? Not to mention, I can't really run my website without the whole fic aspect, and I like running the website a lot. Plus, if I wasn't thinking about BtVS stuff, what would I talk to all the wonderful people on my friends list about? And I'd probably get really bored at the conventions coming up this year...

So, I'm stuck caring about these characters and situations that piss me off. I'm actively seeking a new obsession, but unfortunately nothing's really catching my attention right now.

[aryas_zehral]

I'm actively seeking a new obsession, but unfortunately nothing's really catching my attention right now.

Is it possible to seek an obsession like that? I mean I'm kinda trying that route too but its not working and in the past obsessions have always kinda snuck up on me. As you said Either I care immensely, or I don't care at all. and I've found it really hard to predict which way I'll fall. Of course I was right with Buffy. I think I was fairly obsessed with Buffy before I'd even see an episode. One ad and I was there. Lol.

But no, Spike as human is not of the good. I'm not even sure I want to consider the possibility. Then again I didn't consider Angel as existing as being good before A:tS.

*grin*

Never know they could surprise us. Or destroy it all. Gah!

Lol.
S.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

It's kinda possible. I used to be completely at the whim of whatever my brain decided to become obsessed with, but now that I've recognized this aspect of my personality, I have a lot more control over it.

I can't make myself care about something that I just don't care about. Not gonna happen. Which is why I'm waiting for something to come along and replace Buffy.

But once the interest is there, I can choose whether or not to become really obsessed with it, and I can choose to stop when it becomes painful or unpleasant. Which is why I would have just stopped after "As You Were," except for the whole fandom and fanfic thing roping me in. And originally, I chose to become really invested in BtVS. The interest was there all through S5, and "Intervention" sealed my belief in Spike. But it wasn't until OMwF that I decided the Spike obsession was "safe," because I thought the way he was written in that episode meant that he was finally going to get some respect and dignity and a decent plot. (Heh).

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

(It helps that I moved onto the acceptance stage over grieving over the corpse of a once-good show way back around the time of "Normal Again.")

Heh! I got there a couple of episodes before you - with "As You Were", as a matter of fact... The fact that they could play Riley's return as the hero with absolutely no irony and somehow turn around and make it be BUFFY'S fault that he left? That was it for me - at that point, I had to admit that we'd have been better off if the show had ended with "The Gift"!

[girlwithjournal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but the Spike I love is a demon. Why should I care about some human with Spike's face and memories parading around, maybe being happy? It's not the Spike I cared about, the Spike who struggled to change himself without a soul, who resisted torture for Dawn and Buffy, who took care of Dawn all summer and who refused to allow WHAT he was to dictate who he would be

I don't think this will ever be explicitly stated, but it is my belief that if a Shanshu'd Spike shows up on AtS S5, he will not be human because the demon was removed from him and is no longer a part of him, but because the demon was transfigured. He'll still be all the Spike he was before - William personality + demon + 120 years + soul - but in a human body. It's a physical, not spiritual, change.

Does that make any sense?

[spikewriter]

I think this is speculation masking as spoilers. For one thing, this is from SFX magazine, right? This issue probably had to be put to bed several weeks ago and the writers for AtS didn't go back to work until last week.

Personal opinion is that Spike likely won't be a vampire, but he probably won't be "just" human, either. For one thing, think of how much it would piss Angel off if Spike could walk in the sunshine and had some of the vampire goodies like strength, healing, etc. Doesn't have to be all of them -- shouldn't be all of them -- just enough to really stick in Angel's craw. Wouldn't take Spike down to human level and sticks with what seems to be the number one rule of AtS: It sucks to be Angel.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I think this is speculation masking as spoilers.

Okay, I'm officially believing this until I see otherwise. :)

*happily wanders off into denial-land*

anything that pisses off angel is a GOOD thing

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

the pissy dynamic between the two is going to make or break this show for me--i never watched angel because i never liked angel, altho from all that i've been told, the characterization is very different between AtS and BtVS. and i think it would really depend on how spike's written as human. could be interesting, or they could squander it the way they squandered the soul issue on buffy. i guess we'll see! thanks for sharing the clipping!

Re: anything that pisses off angel is a GOOD thing

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I've never liked Angel the character on either show, but he is much more well-rounded and interesting to watch on AtS. And you shouldn't really let your Angel dislike keep you away; AtS has generally had wonderful stories and wonderful supporting characters to distract those of us who are less than entertained by the expressionless avenger.

Re: anything that pisses off angel is a GOOD thing

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

james marsters could get me to sit thru an hour infomercial, so i will be there, and pray i'm not disappointed.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Last month SFX said that the ubervamps were killed by Willow doing a spell that caved in the school roof, so I wouldn't worry. Their accuracy is not the best.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Ah, thank you for giving me hope! ;)

[zyre.livejournal.com]

Hee. Not sure how happy I am about him being the "But it's wrong!" guy, but I'm not the most redemptionsit of Spike fans. ;)

Blond is nice. :)!

[jodyorjen.livejournal.com]

Oh, human Spike! Laura's favorite! :slaps forehead:

Seriously, though, I'll believe it when I see it spilled by Joss or someone from ME. As someone below pointed out, this publication has been dead wrong in the past. (Yeah, pun intended). So untwist thy panties, dear :) It's a long way until real spoilage.

[drujan.livejournal.com]

That sure beats being a freaking ghost... Although I still think this is not certain, Joss might want to keep his precious shanshue for Angelkins, and "reward" Spike by more pain and suffering. Being a ghost will fit the bill perfectly. Because Joss just lurves torturing Spike fans.

After three years of unrelenting torture and refusal to allow the character even a token of happiness, I do not believe good times are ahead for Spike on AtS. If he shanshues, I'll be ecstatic - because then I can add the scene of his resurrection to my collection and happily forget about whatever new indignity is happening on screen.

Besides, it's not like he has to stay human if he doesn't like it... I think Dru will be happy to oblige if he ever wants to become a vamp again.

[onetwomany.livejournal.com]

I totally share you disdain for the Buffyverse idealisation of the normal. But Human!Spike doesn’t worry me like it use to. For one thing, I don’t think it’s going to be presented as the solution to Spike’s problems that it would have been on Buffy. He’s not gonna ride into the sunset with the girl, ready to pursue a life of suburban bliss in the Valley. If anything, it’s likely to make his ‘life’ that much more difficult.

For another, I think it might be a salutary lesson for Angel. He’s whole life’s path is about obtaining some dream of humanity. But is he really gonna want it when he gets it? I think probably not. He’d hate not being an average Joe with no destiny or superpowers. And I’m hoping that by watching Spike adapt to being human, Angel’s gonna start to reassess whether ‘normal’ is really such a great thing, or whether there really is such as thing as ‘normal’ at all.

I can hope, anyway.

But that said, I don't think this is the most reliable of sources. All we really know from it is that Spike is staying blond. Which probably relieves me more than it should.

[kellyhk.livejournal.com]

Oh, so the "I won't go human! How lame would that be???" bit...either the boy is clueless or just sucks butt with the mislead with a crappy poker face.

Think I can live with Human!Spike as long as he doesn't have uberpowers. I'd love to see the conflict and reentry shock, so to speak. But I don't want them to candy ass him out. Sigh. Think it is possible to have it both ways.

Well, perhaps the shallow part of me will get to hear Spike sing like Eddie Murphy, "I got some shanshu, and you don't have none!!!"

[zyrya]

I get a 404 for that link, but ... isn't SFX infamous for pulling rabbits (sorry, Anya) out of its hat and parading them as spoilers?

Stake me now and put me out of my misery!

[chenanceou.livejournal.com]

I don't want human Spike. But then I didn't want soul Spike either and learnt to deal with it. I still have my Soul? Schmoul! T-shirt somewhere. Argh and then some Grr!
I have stopped making wallpapers, I have stopped writing and now have given up on video-ing... Last step is just stop watching it all together.
Chen who thought it was much more interesting when he was doing it on his own.

Re: Stake me now and put me out of my misery!

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I want a Soul? Schmoul! t-shirt. That kicks so much ass. If I make one for myself to wear in Tampa, would you mind?

I'll never be happy about the soul. I really don't care about souled Spike at all; he bores me to tears. (On the show; in fanfic he can be okay, but that's only when writers basically write him as if he's unsouled Spike).

When he was doing it on his own, when it was a struggle, it was profound and beautiful and amazing. When he was doing it because he had a soul, it was just plain dull. We've got a million saintly white hat heroes; why couldn't the one really cool, ambiguous grey character stay that way?

Re: Stake me now and put me out of my misery!

[chenanceou.livejournal.com]

I have been horrid about checking the LJ - but by all means make one! The more, the better. I have the file for it if you want it. Just e-mail me at the chenanceou-at-yahoo addy and I will send it to you!
In my AU he has no soul and is doing just FINE.
Chen who is frantic about packing and visas