I remember complaining in S4 that Dean got over hell too quickly, but actually he didn't--this is the fallout.
You know, you're right. I still don't like *watching* torture, but there is indeed a good reason (a massively unpleasant reason) why it's there.
It's not that I think the mindwipe is okay--it takes away agency, it's never okay.
*nods* I'm on record as being anti-mindwipe for just this reason. Also kinda frustrating that we didn't get a Lisa who? from someone like Bobby, so we could understand the full extent of it. Sam remembers, so it's not all just Dean (and I'm grateful for that), but what about the monsters who would come after Lisa - what about Crowley? And what about Mark's family/friends? Is his corpse still in her house? (I guess we have to assume that what Castiel did isn't just in the heads of Lisa and Ben, since her hospital charts would need changing too...)
Again I really hate mindwipes and I really hate "leaving them for their own good" stories, but this one worked much better for me than usual because it was so true to Dean's character and I strongly felt that the narrative didn't present it as "noble" or "right" but as a continuing, consistent aspect of Dean's fucked-up psychological issues.
You are right, again. I find it sad that Dean can't see the good that he has inside himself next to the bad, but it's consistent with how his character has been presented. How is it that when I hear your point of view, it makes me like the finale about a zillion times better than before?
And yet he's totally off the reservation with his scary arrogance, so I see where the boys are coming from. I totally love writing that's this complex, where I see all sides and am not entirely sympathetic to any party.
I can't say I'm sympathetic to Cas per se, but I actually found him much more interesting when he stopped just being a deus ex machina for the boys and started pursuing his own goals (crazed as they were). (The theology of all the Purgatory stuff was completely inconsistent with the actual mythology of people who believe in it, but that's nothing new for this show.)
Do I even have to mention that this show is taking misogyny and racism to almost parodic heights by killing off 95% of the women and people of color it introduces (and dismissing the other 5% from the narrative)?
That's the main reason I'm just eyerolling at this point. It's like they are trying to live up to everyone's worst opinions of them. COME ON, show. It's a parody, like you say.
Your spoiler for season seven makes me more likely to be on board for at least the first episode. I just want this to be a show about family and road trips, not about wars in heaven.
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Date: 2011-05-28 12:37 pm (UTC)You know, you're right. I still don't like *watching* torture, but there is indeed a good reason (a massively unpleasant reason) why it's there.
It's not that I think the mindwipe is okay--it takes away agency, it's never okay.
*nods* I'm on record as being anti-mindwipe for just this reason. Also kinda frustrating that we didn't get a Lisa who? from someone like Bobby, so we could understand the full extent of it. Sam remembers, so it's not all just Dean (and I'm grateful for that), but what about the monsters who would come after Lisa - what about Crowley? And what about Mark's family/friends? Is his corpse still in her house? (I guess we have to assume that what Castiel did isn't just in the heads of Lisa and Ben, since her hospital charts would need changing too...)
Again I really hate mindwipes and I really hate "leaving them for their own good" stories, but this one worked much better for me than usual because it was so true to Dean's character and I strongly felt that the narrative didn't present it as "noble" or "right" but as a continuing, consistent aspect of Dean's fucked-up psychological issues.
You are right, again. I find it sad that Dean can't see the good that he has inside himself next to the bad, but it's consistent with how his character has been presented. How is it that when I hear your point of view, it makes me like the finale about a zillion times better than before?
And yet he's totally off the reservation with his scary arrogance, so I see where the boys are coming from. I totally love writing that's this complex, where I see all sides and am not entirely sympathetic to any party.
I can't say I'm sympathetic to Cas per se, but I actually found him much more interesting when he stopped just being a deus ex machina for the boys and started pursuing his own goals (crazed as they were). (The theology of all the Purgatory stuff was completely inconsistent with the actual mythology of people who believe in it, but that's nothing new for this show.)
Do I even have to mention that this show is taking misogyny and racism to almost parodic heights by killing off 95% of the women and people of color it introduces (and dismissing the other 5% from the narrative)?
That's the main reason I'm just eyerolling at this point. It's like they are trying to live up to everyone's worst opinions of them. COME ON, show. It's a parody, like you say.
Your spoiler for season seven makes me more likely to be on board for at least the first episode. I just want this to be a show about family and road trips, not about wars in heaven.