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rusty_haloI hate getting into arguments, but Doctor Who fandom is driving me fucking insane. So I'm going to rant here on my own journal, where no one has to see it if they don't want to.
Doctor Who fandom memes, and why they piss me off.
The Doctor was horribly mean to poor Harriet Jones.
Harriet Jones shot a retreating enemy in the back. She annihilated an entire society, including those who hadn't been fighting. Can you imagine if this was common practice? War would never end until one side had been completely destroyed; no one would ever surrender because they'd know they'd just get killed anyway.
Sure, it's easy for a human audience to shrug it off and say, "Well, they were just aliens," but the Doctor isn't human. We're all aliens to him and he saw one alien species behaving badly to another, and he did what he always does: put a stop to it. That's who the Doctor is, someone who sees injustice and acts to end it.
I like and sympathize with Harriet Jones, but she did something wrong, and she paid the price.
If you want to complain that the Doctor has no right to go interfering in alien societies, well, go ahead, but I don't see why you even watch the show, because all the Doctor does is interfere in alien societies.
People also like to complain that the Master's election as Prime Minister was a direct result of the Doctor bringing down Harriet Jones. It's a nice irony, but come on. If the Doctor could bring Jones down with six words, you really think the Master couldn't with fifteen satellites?
The Doctor and Rose deserved to be torn apart in "Doomsday" because of their callous behavior in previous episodes.
Oh, honestly. They're in love, they've been through harrowing events and come out stronger, they're traveling around the universe having adventures, and they're giddy and happy to be together. And, being that one of them is the Doctor, they run into trouble. What do they do?
A) Ignore the trouble and go off somewhere else to have more giddy fun.
B) Fix the trouble, help whoever they can, and continue to enjoy themselves while they do it.
C) Realize that the universe is a terrible awful place, and mope around being miserable for an entire season.
A) would be the callous response that a lot of fandom seems to think they did. B) would be the simultaneously compassionate and fun response they actually chose. C) would be the extremely depressing response that a lot of fandom wishes they'd chosen.
I have no problem with the Doctor and Rose being happy together and refusing to hide it. They don't have to help anyone, but they choose to. When someone saves your life, are you going to complain that they're not taking the situation seriously enough, or are you just going to be fucking glad that someone saved your life?
Seriously. They deserve all the fun they can get. The Doctor has saved the universe more times that I can count, and Rose did her own heart-of-the-TARDIS-absorbing universe-saving thing very recently too. This is the first happiness the Doctor's felt since he lost Gallifrey, and I can't believe there are bitter fans begrudging it because... what? They don't like the 'ship? They want everyone to be grim and miserable all the time? They've got some kind of Puritan idea that happiness must be punished?
As for "They brought about their own destruction," please. Queen Victoria brought about their destruction by being close-minded and afraid of anything beyond her own understanding. Torchwood brought about their destruction by being stupid and power hungry. The Doctor and Rose didn't do anything wrong. If they hadn't been there, Victoria would have been bitten and Britain would be ruled by werewolves. (LOL.) Instead, the Doctor and Rose showed up and saved the country, and what did they get? Banished. Torchwood resulted, and Torchwood tore them apart, which is tragic, and ironic, but it's certainly not their fault.
The Doctor brought up Rose constantly throughout season three.
He really didn't. He brought up Rose two times at the very beginning of the season, when he was still reeling from having lost her. Once in "Smith and Jones" and once in "The Shakespeare Code," the first two episodes.
He also said her name when other people asked about her--Donna in "The Runaway Bride" and Jack in "Utopia." Then the Master brought her up in "Last of the Time Lords," Martha brought her up in "Gridlock," and John Smith drew her in "Human Nature." So the show certainly didn't forget about her, but neither was the Doctor constantly yacking about her. The Doctor himself, of his own volition, only brought her up twice.
And why shouldn't she be mentioned? She was the first person the Doctor truly connected with since the Time War. Whether you like it or not, she had a huge impact on his life, and it would be ridiculous for the show to brush it off and pretend she wasn't important.
The Doctor never appreciated Martha.
Oh, except all those times he said "Thank you" and told her how much he appreciated her.
When people say this, what they mean is "The Doctor never fucked Martha." Which is a ship-war argument and is completely immune to logic.
The Doctor brings death and destruction wherever he goes, and leaves disaster behind him for others to clean up.
Oh, now this one is just silly. The Doctor goes where there is already (about to be) death and destruction, finds himself in the middle of it, and does what he can to help. It's a simple matter of cause and effect. The Doctor doesn't cause the tragedy; he just finds himself in bad situations and makes them better than they would've been without him. This doesn't stop people who only see a small part of the picture from assuming that the Doctor must be responsible, but they're just plain wrong.
As for leaving a mess behind--well, the mess was going to be there anyway. He's already taken the time to help the situation, right whatever wrong was going on; why should this imply an additional obligation to stick around and rebuild? It's not his place to go around rebuilding everyone else's societies anyway, and part of what the Doctor does is teach others how to help themselves. That would hardly work if he just hovered around forever doing everything for them.
The Doctor really thinks he's a god, his behavior is unacceptably arrogant, and he needs to be brought down.
Oh my god, what show are these people watching? He knows perfectly well that he isn't a god. He knew it when Rose was torn away from him forever. He knew it when he couldn't bring Astrid back. He knew it when he had to kill his entire species in order to save the universe. Seriously, if he were a god, he'd have been able to stop these horrible things from happening.
But what makes him the Doctor is that he keeps trying anyway. He's not a god, but in nearly every situation he encounters, he's the most powerful being in the room. This isn't arrogance; it's fact. He accepts that (to paraphrase Peter Parker's Uncle Ben) this power comes with responsibility. He acts to the best of his ability, even though he's not perfect, because he knows it's better to do something than to do nothing. How can you complain about arrogance when it manifests as "trying to save as many people as possible"?
Sometimes he screws up. Sometimes he does everything he possibly can but it's still not enough. Just about every time, though, he helps. He makes the situation better than it would have been without him. He can't save everyone on the Titanic, but he saves a few passengers and, oh yeah, the entire Earth. Do people really think the situation would have been better if the Doctor hadn't "arrogantly" tried to help? Because we'd all be dead if he hadn't.
As far as him deserving to be brought down? No, he doesn't deserve it. But he gets brought down anyway, or did you miss the look on his face when Astrid turned into stardust? When he realized Rose was gone forever? When the Master died in his arms? Every time he thinks of Gallifrey?
***
The other thing that's annoying me today: the fact that every time Doctor Who shows up on Fandom Wank, it turns into a big Rose-bashing extravaganza. It's just an excuse for a bunch of ugly grudgewank from bitter Martha fans, who are far more wanky than those they're mocking.
***
(Comments of whatever sort are fine, but as this is more of a rant than a reasoned argument meant to convince others, I'll probably not respond to anything too argumentative.)
[Cross-posted to InsaneJournal]
Doctor Who fandom memes, and why they piss me off.
The Doctor was horribly mean to poor Harriet Jones.
Harriet Jones shot a retreating enemy in the back. She annihilated an entire society, including those who hadn't been fighting. Can you imagine if this was common practice? War would never end until one side had been completely destroyed; no one would ever surrender because they'd know they'd just get killed anyway.
Sure, it's easy for a human audience to shrug it off and say, "Well, they were just aliens," but the Doctor isn't human. We're all aliens to him and he saw one alien species behaving badly to another, and he did what he always does: put a stop to it. That's who the Doctor is, someone who sees injustice and acts to end it.
I like and sympathize with Harriet Jones, but she did something wrong, and she paid the price.
If you want to complain that the Doctor has no right to go interfering in alien societies, well, go ahead, but I don't see why you even watch the show, because all the Doctor does is interfere in alien societies.
People also like to complain that the Master's election as Prime Minister was a direct result of the Doctor bringing down Harriet Jones. It's a nice irony, but come on. If the Doctor could bring Jones down with six words, you really think the Master couldn't with fifteen satellites?
The Doctor and Rose deserved to be torn apart in "Doomsday" because of their callous behavior in previous episodes.
Oh, honestly. They're in love, they've been through harrowing events and come out stronger, they're traveling around the universe having adventures, and they're giddy and happy to be together. And, being that one of them is the Doctor, they run into trouble. What do they do?
A) Ignore the trouble and go off somewhere else to have more giddy fun.
B) Fix the trouble, help whoever they can, and continue to enjoy themselves while they do it.
C) Realize that the universe is a terrible awful place, and mope around being miserable for an entire season.
A) would be the callous response that a lot of fandom seems to think they did. B) would be the simultaneously compassionate and fun response they actually chose. C) would be the extremely depressing response that a lot of fandom wishes they'd chosen.
I have no problem with the Doctor and Rose being happy together and refusing to hide it. They don't have to help anyone, but they choose to. When someone saves your life, are you going to complain that they're not taking the situation seriously enough, or are you just going to be fucking glad that someone saved your life?
Seriously. They deserve all the fun they can get. The Doctor has saved the universe more times that I can count, and Rose did her own heart-of-the-TARDIS-absorbing universe-saving thing very recently too. This is the first happiness the Doctor's felt since he lost Gallifrey, and I can't believe there are bitter fans begrudging it because... what? They don't like the 'ship? They want everyone to be grim and miserable all the time? They've got some kind of Puritan idea that happiness must be punished?
As for "They brought about their own destruction," please. Queen Victoria brought about their destruction by being close-minded and afraid of anything beyond her own understanding. Torchwood brought about their destruction by being stupid and power hungry. The Doctor and Rose didn't do anything wrong. If they hadn't been there, Victoria would have been bitten and Britain would be ruled by werewolves. (LOL.) Instead, the Doctor and Rose showed up and saved the country, and what did they get? Banished. Torchwood resulted, and Torchwood tore them apart, which is tragic, and ironic, but it's certainly not their fault.
The Doctor brought up Rose constantly throughout season three.
He really didn't. He brought up Rose two times at the very beginning of the season, when he was still reeling from having lost her. Once in "Smith and Jones" and once in "The Shakespeare Code," the first two episodes.
He also said her name when other people asked about her--Donna in "The Runaway Bride" and Jack in "Utopia." Then the Master brought her up in "Last of the Time Lords," Martha brought her up in "Gridlock," and John Smith drew her in "Human Nature." So the show certainly didn't forget about her, but neither was the Doctor constantly yacking about her. The Doctor himself, of his own volition, only brought her up twice.
And why shouldn't she be mentioned? She was the first person the Doctor truly connected with since the Time War. Whether you like it or not, she had a huge impact on his life, and it would be ridiculous for the show to brush it off and pretend she wasn't important.
The Doctor never appreciated Martha.
Oh, except all those times he said "Thank you" and told her how much he appreciated her.
When people say this, what they mean is "The Doctor never fucked Martha." Which is a ship-war argument and is completely immune to logic.
The Doctor brings death and destruction wherever he goes, and leaves disaster behind him for others to clean up.
Oh, now this one is just silly. The Doctor goes where there is already (about to be) death and destruction, finds himself in the middle of it, and does what he can to help. It's a simple matter of cause and effect. The Doctor doesn't cause the tragedy; he just finds himself in bad situations and makes them better than they would've been without him. This doesn't stop people who only see a small part of the picture from assuming that the Doctor must be responsible, but they're just plain wrong.
As for leaving a mess behind--well, the mess was going to be there anyway. He's already taken the time to help the situation, right whatever wrong was going on; why should this imply an additional obligation to stick around and rebuild? It's not his place to go around rebuilding everyone else's societies anyway, and part of what the Doctor does is teach others how to help themselves. That would hardly work if he just hovered around forever doing everything for them.
The Doctor really thinks he's a god, his behavior is unacceptably arrogant, and he needs to be brought down.
Oh my god, what show are these people watching? He knows perfectly well that he isn't a god. He knew it when Rose was torn away from him forever. He knew it when he couldn't bring Astrid back. He knew it when he had to kill his entire species in order to save the universe. Seriously, if he were a god, he'd have been able to stop these horrible things from happening.
But what makes him the Doctor is that he keeps trying anyway. He's not a god, but in nearly every situation he encounters, he's the most powerful being in the room. This isn't arrogance; it's fact. He accepts that (to paraphrase Peter Parker's Uncle Ben) this power comes with responsibility. He acts to the best of his ability, even though he's not perfect, because he knows it's better to do something than to do nothing. How can you complain about arrogance when it manifests as "trying to save as many people as possible"?
Sometimes he screws up. Sometimes he does everything he possibly can but it's still not enough. Just about every time, though, he helps. He makes the situation better than it would have been without him. He can't save everyone on the Titanic, but he saves a few passengers and, oh yeah, the entire Earth. Do people really think the situation would have been better if the Doctor hadn't "arrogantly" tried to help? Because we'd all be dead if he hadn't.
As far as him deserving to be brought down? No, he doesn't deserve it. But he gets brought down anyway, or did you miss the look on his face when Astrid turned into stardust? When he realized Rose was gone forever? When the Master died in his arms? Every time he thinks of Gallifrey?
***
The other thing that's annoying me today: the fact that every time Doctor Who shows up on Fandom Wank, it turns into a big Rose-bashing extravaganza. It's just an excuse for a bunch of ugly grudgewank from bitter Martha fans, who are far more wanky than those they're mocking.
***
(Comments of whatever sort are fine, but as this is more of a rant than a reasoned argument meant to convince others, I'll probably not respond to anything too argumentative.)
[Cross-posted to InsaneJournal]
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 07:31 am (UTC)In comparison to how often he's mentioned other past companions, he really did. In comparison to any human who's lost a dear friend, he was a model stoic.
I'm Old Skool enough to still loathe the idea of Doctor/Companion, regardless of the companion.
My two pet hates of Dr Who fandom memes are:
(i) Madame de Pompadour would have been just an ordinary woman as a companion. How many other middle class women managed to become serious political players in 18th century Europe? She deliberately sought power and she was good at obtaining it. And the Dr Who version was really frightening in how she took s much in her stride. MdP would never be an ordinary woman.
(ii) The Doctor could accidentally father a child. The Time Lords had all that technology and yet somehow never developed decent contraception? Given their long life spans and tailored physiology, I'd be surprised if they didn't have to consciously want a kid before their repro systems swithced on...
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 09:02 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 09:59 am (UTC)Harriet Jones deserved far worse than she got, but because he's the Doctor, he didn't give it to her.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 12:50 pm (UTC)I think it's because there's such a wide spectrum of stories in DW that people become very invested in their particular preferences to the point where they become hostile when things don't match their expectations. Sort of like the downside to a "diverse rainbow". If all you care about is yellow, you really hate those red and green bastards.
random who comments
Date: 2008-01-26 12:51 pm (UTC)So yeah. I tend to see a lot of the stuff you're ranting about as completely divorced from the reality of watching the show. It's fandom, as you pointed out, not Doctor Who.
Having said all that, I feel good about my intense dislike of Torchwood. I feel like I came about it honestly because I found the writing to be lazy, boring and offensive and I found the character of Jack and the acting work of Barrowman to work only as sidekick not as leading man. Now that's honest dislike based on personal opinion ;)
Having said ALL of that, gosh I miss Nine's season. Aside from Gridlock and Blink I could happily leave all of Season 3 and content myself with watching Tennant and Simm show up everywhere together in London and on the BBC.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 01:31 pm (UTC)Personally, I do not get why Who fans feel the need to get so fucking bitter. Wait around a bit and there will be a new incarnation, assholes. I don't like Ten - in fact, I loathe him, but it's just another aspect of the character and I can still enjoy the show.
Hee, and what is this whole concept that the Doctor needs to obey some ST:TNG version of the Prime Directive at all? A non-interference policy never has been part of this show; actually quite the opposite.
Re: random who comments
Date: 2008-01-26 01:31 pm (UTC)Major word to this.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 02:56 pm (UTC)I agree with this completely. The fascinating thing about this show is it's created to be watched on so many levels - a six year-old is going to get something completely different from the text than a male fan or female fan. Where the problem comes in is when people say "my interpretation of the text is the *correct* interpretation of the text". I think there's enough wiggle room built in so that my interpretation of the Doctor as dark and twisted can live along side of the fangirls "teen dream fluffy Doctor". I don't have to agree with their interpretation but it doesn't mean it's not valid.
Like I said below, this fandom is bereft of YMMV. It's all "To the Wall! We will plant our flag and fight to the death!" Who has the time?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 03:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 03:17 pm (UTC)For real. I have people on my flist (who I like) that don't own a bowl of cornflakes that someone hasn't pissed in. Why bother watching? I mean, my love isn't blind - the show has warts and occasionally goes in directions I'm not fond of (Doctor JesusFairy anyone?) but if the squee isn't there it's really just an exercise in frustration.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:25 pm (UTC)Hee, I'm like the only person who likes that! I don't care how silly it is; the whole show is silly. It's got a lot of moments that I think you have to see from the "little kid" perspective in order to enjoy them at all. If I was trying to watch this show from a logical adult perspective I'd be rolling my eyes every five minutes.
I was just like "ooh, nifty, the Doctor's flying! and thank god he's hot again!" And then it was followed by the slashiest scene ever. Apparently I alternate between child perspective and slash perspective, hmmm...
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:30 pm (UTC)Yes, you are. *g*
I wrote a review for a DW fanzine and my biggest nitpick wasn't the floating, but that the scene had no grounding in any sort of science. If he were anywhere but on earth, I'd buy it, but for a show that trots out the fake skience to explain everything, flying on the faith of a kabillion people was just a bit too Tinkerbell. However, thank GOD he was hot again...even he was performing Jedi mind tricks. ;)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:32 pm (UTC)Yeah, I guess my reaction whenever the Doctor does something questionable is "Ooh, awesome! Moral ambiguity!" Whereas it seems like fandom is like "Boo hiss! How dare he not be PERFECT!?" Perfect characters are boring.
Plus, compared to the characters I've loved in the past (mass murdering vampire, mass murdering immortal...) the Doctor is positively a White Hat. ('Course I also love the Master... mass murdering Time Lord....)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:42 pm (UTC)If the Doctor hadn't mentioned Rose after she'd left, it would've cheapened the story they'd told for the previous two seasons, which was all about how Rose helped him come out of his shell and enjoy life again after the trauma of the Time War. It would be a far less interesting and meaningful show if they ignored important relationships that came before.
Madame de Pompadour would have been just an ordinary woman as a companion.
Where is that from? Fanfic? I haven't seen it, but yeah. Madame de Pompadour was amazing. I adored her, because she was brilliant and charming and very dark and ruthless, just like the Doctor. I loved that episode because it's really rare to see such a well-drawn, three-dimensional female character, especially in a one-episode role.
The Doctor could accidentally father a child.
Gaaaah. See, I haven't seen this, because I'd rather gouge my own eyes out than read babyfic. I think part of the reason I avoid het entirely is because this way there is no risk of babies coming along and invading my imagination.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:52 pm (UTC)All I'm really interested in is the characters, and in having interesting stories that will bring out more aspects of the characters. As far as I'm concerned, the science is just there to justify the plots, which are just there to serve the characters. Yes, it's really all about characters to me.
So all I need is one line thrown in to give it some kind of vague logical backing. Fifteen satellites? The Doctor's integrated into the Archangel network? Sure, whatever. He's back and now he's crying! I want to immerse myself in the emotion he's feeling; I could care less how the show got him there plot-wise.
(I mean... he's an alien traveling around in a magic box... none of it really makes sense anyway.)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:53 pm (UTC)I am meming this. I am meming this like whoa.
It's nice to see sanity now and again.
So... thank you!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:56 pm (UTC)But I see everything from "Harriet Jones is the Antichrist!" to "The Tenth Doctor is a monster for being so mean to her!" At least it leads to interesting discussions, as long as people don't get too wanky.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 10:59 pm (UTC)There's one right here: http://who-transcripts.atspace.com/
Most of S3 isn't up yet (and neither is TC or VotD), but they have got quite a lot. :D
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 11:01 pm (UTC)Re: random who comments
Date: 2008-01-26 11:04 pm (UTC)YES. You've summed up exactly how I feel about Torchwood. I love DW so of course I approached Torchwood expecting to like it. It totally earned my dislike, by being awful in too many ways to count.
I didn't enjoy Nine nearly as much as Ten, but I am totally with you on Tennant and Simm. Mmm... happy thoughts.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-01-26 11:07 pm (UTC)