(no subject)
Sep. 25th, 2003 03:34 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rusty_haloMy reaction to episode 5x02. Warning: I'm half asleep and kind of incoherent right now, so my thoughts are very scattered. Unfortunately I couldn't sleep until I wrote this down.
Okay, what's with the emphasis on how Spike doesn't open up emotionally? Spike is, like, the most emotionally open guy ever. Spike was crying on Joyce's shoulder almost immediately after he'd met her for the second time, spilling intimate details of his relationship with Drusilla. Spike was crying on Willow's shoulder, twice, in tense situations where they were still mortal enemies. When Buffy asked suspiciously if they were on a date in "Crush," Spike spilled his whole "I love you" feelings after about two minutes.
Spike, emotionally closed off? Uh, no.
I mean, I guess I could see Spike not wanting to be open in front of Angel, who he hates and who would probably use it against him anyway. But in general, Spike's such an emotionally open guy that it's just really weird to see everyone acting as if he's not.
Um, other than that (which I'm not pissed about so much as really confused) I liked the episode. I don't really think that Fury "gets" Spike's character, but JM makes up for it. I love how he was hugging himself and seemed so shellshocked when he first came back. He really made the character believable and sympathetic in a very weird situation.
I loved the Spike/Angel snarking. Very, very much. It's so surreal to see the two of them together again. *sigh* I can't wait for the slash fic that's going to come from this ... too bad Spike's incorporeal. I liked the underlying vibe that Spike and Angel do care about each other a bit underneath; Angel was a little hesitant about killing Spike for good, and Spike seemed to genuinely care that Angel was making a big mistake.
I'm a little weirded out by Spike caring so much about Angel's moral situation. Is he just jealous of the big law firm and fancy cars? Is his soul making him have all those annoying moral qualms that souled creatures tend to get? Is he disappointed that Angel, who he used to idolize, has fallen so far? I really don't want to see Spike as the voice of moral reason (bleech) but I thought it was handled very well in this episode, since it could've come from a lot of conflicting places within Spike.
I felt that Angel and Spike were both treated pretty fairly in this episode. Neither came off as totally right or totally wrong; they were clearly both having issues. I liked that Gunn and Wesley called Angel on the way that he covered up Spike's saving the world and getting a soul. Since Angel's not carrying the mantle of "Girl Power!" on his shoulders, the writers are allowing him to take a bit more criticism and are acknowledging his flaws. That's cool, and quite refreshing from Buffy. Hope they keep it up.
If I were a Spuffy shipper, I'd be extremely pissed off that they left the burning hands/"I love you" out of the flashback. Since I'm not a Spuffy shipper by any means, I'm not terribly upset. I think it's weird though; are they trying to rewrite history? De-emphasize Buffy's feelings for Spike? Or just leave their history more open, since "Chosen" had such a sense of finality for them.
Fury thinks Spike's a misogynist. He never misses an opportunity to put something sexist or possessive toward women in Spike's mouth. I miss Jane Espenson. *sniffle*
I don't mind the "is Spike evil?" plot, because they need to establish that for the AtS audience (although it sure as hell got old over on BtVS). If they keep repeating it this year, though, I'm going to get seriously annoyed.
Spike staying in the body to get in a few hits at Angel was so awesome and so Spike. Now there's the Spike I love; he does the right thing in the end, but he doesn't lose himself. Sort of the Jaime Lannister model that![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
queenofthorns is always raving about.
I was a bit worried that snarky, rude Spike would be a one dimensional "snarky vampire neighbor" thing, but here at least, it worked well. It was quite clear that he was snarking to cover up his terror and as a way to express his anger about his situation.
I liked his confession to Fred at the end; it was good to see what Spike was really thinking. It made perfect sense that he went to Fred; he always gravitates toward women to open up to, and she was the only one around who might be able to help him (sorry Harmony).
Okay, what's with the emphasis on how Spike doesn't open up emotionally? Spike is, like, the most emotionally open guy ever. Spike was crying on Joyce's shoulder almost immediately after he'd met her for the second time, spilling intimate details of his relationship with Drusilla. Spike was crying on Willow's shoulder, twice, in tense situations where they were still mortal enemies. When Buffy asked suspiciously if they were on a date in "Crush," Spike spilled his whole "I love you" feelings after about two minutes.
Spike, emotionally closed off? Uh, no.
I mean, I guess I could see Spike not wanting to be open in front of Angel, who he hates and who would probably use it against him anyway. But in general, Spike's such an emotionally open guy that it's just really weird to see everyone acting as if he's not.
Um, other than that (which I'm not pissed about so much as really confused) I liked the episode. I don't really think that Fury "gets" Spike's character, but JM makes up for it. I love how he was hugging himself and seemed so shellshocked when he first came back. He really made the character believable and sympathetic in a very weird situation.
I loved the Spike/Angel snarking. Very, very much. It's so surreal to see the two of them together again. *sigh* I can't wait for the slash fic that's going to come from this ... too bad Spike's incorporeal. I liked the underlying vibe that Spike and Angel do care about each other a bit underneath; Angel was a little hesitant about killing Spike for good, and Spike seemed to genuinely care that Angel was making a big mistake.
I'm a little weirded out by Spike caring so much about Angel's moral situation. Is he just jealous of the big law firm and fancy cars? Is his soul making him have all those annoying moral qualms that souled creatures tend to get? Is he disappointed that Angel, who he used to idolize, has fallen so far? I really don't want to see Spike as the voice of moral reason (bleech) but I thought it was handled very well in this episode, since it could've come from a lot of conflicting places within Spike.
I felt that Angel and Spike were both treated pretty fairly in this episode. Neither came off as totally right or totally wrong; they were clearly both having issues. I liked that Gunn and Wesley called Angel on the way that he covered up Spike's saving the world and getting a soul. Since Angel's not carrying the mantle of "Girl Power!" on his shoulders, the writers are allowing him to take a bit more criticism and are acknowledging his flaws. That's cool, and quite refreshing from Buffy. Hope they keep it up.
If I were a Spuffy shipper, I'd be extremely pissed off that they left the burning hands/"I love you" out of the flashback. Since I'm not a Spuffy shipper by any means, I'm not terribly upset. I think it's weird though; are they trying to rewrite history? De-emphasize Buffy's feelings for Spike? Or just leave their history more open, since "Chosen" had such a sense of finality for them.
Fury thinks Spike's a misogynist. He never misses an opportunity to put something sexist or possessive toward women in Spike's mouth. I miss Jane Espenson. *sniffle*
I don't mind the "is Spike evil?" plot, because they need to establish that for the AtS audience (although it sure as hell got old over on BtVS). If they keep repeating it this year, though, I'm going to get seriously annoyed.
Spike staying in the body to get in a few hits at Angel was so awesome and so Spike. Now there's the Spike I love; he does the right thing in the end, but he doesn't lose himself. Sort of the Jaime Lannister model that
queenofthorns is always raving about.I was a bit worried that snarky, rude Spike would be a one dimensional "snarky vampire neighbor" thing, but here at least, it worked well. It was quite clear that he was snarking to cover up his terror and as a way to express his anger about his situation.
I liked his confession to Fred at the end; it was good to see what Spike was really thinking. It made perfect sense that he went to Fred; he always gravitates toward women to open up to, and she was the only one around who might be able to help him (sorry Harmony).
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-25 09:47 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-25 10:26 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-25 10:31 am (UTC)So, estepheia, are you going to write more S/A stories now?
(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-25 12:17 pm (UTC)Actually, I'm currently writing post-Just Cause Spike/Fred. How's that?
And yeah, I guess there will be Spike/Angel eventually. Because this season of AtS is gonna be a real slash-fest. Yay!!
*dances happy conga*
(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-27 02:15 am (UTC)You're writing Spike/Fred? Squeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
*does a happy dance*
(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-27 08:20 am (UTC)Thank you.
Here's the link to the story: Haunting
Not shippy, I'm afraid, but hey, that might happen later. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-25 10:41 am (UTC)I wondered about that too. But then, it was Angel and Harmony making that assessment, and they’re both typically way off base when it comes to Spike’s character. Plus, the next scene was all about Spike confiding how scared he was to a total stranger. Not that I really give ME the credit of being that subtle, but hey, you never know, maybe they are trying to show that Angel knows nothing…
I love how he was hugging himself and seemed so shellshocked when he first came back. He really made the character believable and sympathetic in a very weird situation.
Definitely agree. ::sniff:: I love the way he gradually became ‘Spike’ again over the course of the episode. And not Buffy’s Spike, but Spike-Spike, the personality he always wears around strangers (although he did let it slip a little occasionally).
I'm a little weirded out by Spike caring so much about Angel's moral situation. Is he just jealous of the big law firm and fancy cars? …I really don't want to see Spike as the voice of moral reason
Either do I. Definitely not. And that stunned me. I’m fanwanking it as Spike trying to get under Angel’s skin, finding fault, mocking Angel using what he figures are Angel’s principles. I’ll be rather surprised and worried if Spike becomes the moral crusader.
If I were a Spuffy shipper, I'd be extremely pissed off that they left the burning hands/"I love you" out of the flashback.
I’m not. I didn’t really think about it, to be honest. I guess if you care, you remember, if you don’t, you don’t want to be reminded. I guess they’re concentrating on the sacrifice and saving the whole romance/whatever with Buffy thing for later. But then, I can wank anything…
(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-25 11:34 am (UTC)Have read an assessment of Spike's concern over Angel's moral situation as being more that it shows Spike does have some underlying feelings for Angel that aren't hatred. Someone also said that they got an 'old,divorced couple' vibe off Spike and Angel. Hee!
(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-25 12:46 pm (UTC)The words I remember are Angel saying "Spike's not big with sharing" or something like that, in response to a comment by Wes that if Spike is going to stick around he needs to share his plans with everyone. Harmony agrees with Angel, and she was going on all episode about how they needed to talk about their relationship or whatever. I read Angel's comment a number of different ways, to be honest. Emotionally closed was one take, but it could also mean he's a loner, not part of the team etc etc.
shows Spike does have some underlying feelings for Angel that aren't hatred.
Spike gives a darling little smile after Angel and him kind of bond. The sense I got was that Spike actually wants Angel to approve of him, although he would never admit that to anyone, ever. But that's very Spike-ish. He likes to think of himself as a rebel and a lone wolf, but in fact he just wants friends and to belong.
Someone also said that they got an 'old, divorced couple' vibe off Spike and Angel. Hee!
That's a great take! And I'd agree. It's an odd relationship, although I also got a brotherly vibe along with the slashy one.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-25 02:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-25 04:14 pm (UTC)I thought of it more as Spike wanting to snark at Angel, and that being a logical target for the snark. Plus Spike does tend to be the voice of truth...
(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-26 03:42 am (UTC)I was wondering that too. I mean, Spike is Mr. Heart on his sleeve. But as I thought about it, I sort of got the idea that these statements were really about that. I think the purpose of the statements was perhaps for AtS viewers who aren't familiar with Spike and it's code for "Spike puts up a blustering facade that's not who he really is." We know that Spike is as emotional as it gets, but he does like to put on that act, and I think the "open up" stuff was code-speak for "this is a very thin facade"
(no subject)
Date: 2003-09-27 05:28 pm (UTC)