[personal profile] rusty_halo
Since my site is a fairly popular Spike site, I think that by looking at its statistics, one can extrapolate some general trends about Spike fandom (especially the fanfic side). Of course, my site is skewed toward the segment of Spike fic readers that happen to visit my particular site, so that should be kept in mind.

I've compiled some statistics and my analysis of what they mean. These are just from January 12 - January 29 2004, since I lost all my old log files in the server move (stupid fucking ipowerweb). The good side is that they represent what people have been seeking most recently; the bad side is that they can be easily skewed by, say, someone posting a link in a popular forum that then gets clicked often and skews the results in that direction.

The top 10 stories are Spike/Buffy stories; the top 10 authors are all predominantly Spike/Buffy authors.

The top pairings:

[Hits since mid-January: Percent of total pages visited: Pairing]
23021: 5.03%: Spike/Buffy
12260: 0.44%: Spike/Angel(us)
8356: 0.34%: Spike/Xander
4422: 0.06%: Spike/Dawn
2839: 0.04%: Spike/Willow
2678: 0.08%: Spike & Dawn
2321: 0.02%: Spike/Fred
1990: 0.02%: Spike/Tara
1265: 0.02%: Spike & Xander
1261: 0.02%: Spike/Wesley
1191: 0.02%: Spike & Willow

(Spike/Buffy is almost twice as popular as any other pairing; Spike/Angel(us) has replaced Spike/Xander as the second most popular pairing. S/B, S/A, and S/X are the three big Spike pairings with large followings. Spike and Dawn -- both friendship and sexual/romantic -- also still has a surprisingly large following, given that their last meaningful interaction occured more than two years ago. And Spike/Dawn romance seems to be more popular now that Dawn is older. Spike/Fred--once an obscure pairing that very few people considered--now has a bit of a budding fanbase.)

The top time periods:

1498: 0.04%: Post-Chosen
1459: 0.02%: Post-Destiny
1081: 0.05%: Alternate Universe
902: 0.04%: Post-Gift
812: 0.01%: Post-Harm's Way
808: 0.01%: Post-Fool for Love
727: 0.01%: Post-Something Blue
721: 0.01%: During Something Blue
629: 0.01%: Early AtS Season Five
627: 0.02%: Pre-Series

(No real surprises here, except that the predominance of Something Blue--a comedic episode from four years ago--is most likely so highly represented because people are seeking fluffy Spuffy fic.)

The top themes:

2382: 0.09%: Romance
1761: 0.03%: Hurt/Comfort
1527: 0.06%: Humor, Parody, and/or Fluff
1469: 0.02%: Webmistress' Choice (hee! I have influence!)
1404: 0.08%: Angst
1403: 0.02%: Threesome
1135: 0.03%: Post-Soul Insanity
1082: 0.02%: Soulless Redemption (Yay!)
1030: 0.01%: Time/Universe Displacement
909: 0.03%: Horror/Darkfic
881: 0.01%: Crossover

(I'm sort of surprised by the popularity of hurt/comfort. I guess the "romance" category shouldn't surprise me, but it kind of annoys me anyway. Stupid pairing-obsessed Buffy fandom.)

Ratings:

10758: 1.40%: NC-17
953: 0.09%: R
809: 0.02%: G
755: 0.05%: PG
256: 0.01%: Not Rated
173: 0.02%: PG-13

(No surprises about NC-17 and R, but PG-13 used to be a lot more popular than this. And why is "G" rated so high? It used to be last.)

Fiction by Length:

2386: 0.10%: 30,000+ Words
819: 0.04%: 10,000 - 30,000 Words
818: 0.02%: Works in Progress
495: 0.06%: 1 - 1,500 Words
354: 0.02%: 5,001 - 10,000 Words
292: 0.04%: 1,501 - 5,000 Words

(The longer the better, pretty much. Though the very shortest stories also seem to have a bit of a following.)

Most common searches by multiple categories:

584: Spike/Buffy, NC-17
192: Post-Destiny
88: Spike/Angel(us)
86: Spike/Xander, NC-17
84: Spike/Buffy
77: Spike/Buffy, Post-Chosen
77: Spike/Dawn, NC-17
67: Spike/Drusilla
63: Spike/Buffy, NC-17, Post-Chosen
62: Spike/Buffy, Romance
61: Spike/Buffy, NC-17, 5,000 - 10,000 words
60: Spike/Dawn
59: Crossovers

The moral of the story is: if you want to write a really popular story, it should be post-"Chosen" NC-17 epic-length Spuffy romance.

Of course, I probably won't archive it. But don't worry, plenty of other sites will.

According to the little stats thingy on my homepage (which only tracks visitors to the homepage, but has logs for the past year):



Visits to my site peaked in May 2003, with the BtVS series finale and the publicity surrounding it. Visits then went steadily down until they perked up again in October 2003, when Spike returned on AtS. Visits then proceeded to go steadily down once again, which suggests to me that AtS began losing Spike fans almost right away. Though it could just mean that they went to another site that archives more Spuffy. ;)

The extreme decrease in site visits (I'm getting about 70% as many visits now as I got in May 2003) is probably due to several factors:

1. General decrease of interest in Buffy fandom when the series ended.

2. Summer lull -- even those people who returned for Angel in fall were likely to lose interest over the summer.

3. I stopped archiving most works in progress, which used to bring in the most visitors. (I stopped mostly because I couldn't keep track of them all, and a lot of them took directions halfway-through that didn't work well for my site, so I figured it's best to wait until a story is finished even if it does mean many fewer site visitors.)

4. I started archiving more slash. I got a lot of complaints over this. Stupid homophobia.

5. I started archiving less Spike/Buffy. Most Spike fic readers mostly read Spike/Buffy.

I do still archive S/B regularly, btw, just not as often as I used to, and the S/B I archive tends to be angsty rather than fluffy. This is because
- fewer people are writing good S/B; a lot of writers have just moved on
- I'm not interested in S/B and don't read it for enjoyment; I'll only read it if I respect the writer or if someone actively submits it to my site
- Warning: Spuffy bitching. Stop reading now if it will upset you. Just my personal opinion, etc. I absolutely do not buy that post-S6 Buffy could possibly have loved, cared about, or valued Spike on his own terms without vast amounts of therapy and personal-growth. All canonical evidence indicates that he was simply a useful thing to her and that she was pathologically incapable of recognizing the value of anyone but herself or someone who does something for her. She might have missed his constant boot-licking post-"Chosen," but she sure as hell didn't miss him, and I'm certain she's not mourning him. I get really sick of the sappy fluffy Buffy-as-Mary-Sue, crying her eyes out missing her twu wuv Spike, wish-fulfillment Spuffy. (Even though I'll still, very occasionally, archive it if it's written very well otherwise.)

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miggy.livejournal.com
I always enjoy your stat posts (likely because I do the same thing). And, of course, you know I'm right there with you on the last paragraph.

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 08:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
Thanks. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paratti.livejournal.com
Love stats. It's the econometrician in me, I can't help it. This is great stuff. Thanks for posting it.

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 08:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gobi-rex.livejournal.com
It's the econometrician in me

Really? I had no idea one of my favorite fanfic writers was also a fellow economist. (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Re:

From: [identity profile] paratti.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 08:17 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 08:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
Thanks. :) Glad you find it interesting.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 07:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soundingsea.livejournal.com
Thank you for posting this! Very interesting analysis. Just goes to show that trends may push in one direction or another, but there's enough room in fandom for all pairings (though I agree that pairing is not the be-all and end-all).

Even though site visits aren't as high as they were when BtVS was on the air, I'm really glad you're still archiving. Sometimes I've read the stuff I see go by in the allaboutspike updates and I nod, but if I haven't, I'm almost certain to click and read. You bring the good fic to Spike-lovers everywhere. (And I have you to thank for the fact that I'll read Spike in any well-written pairing or no pairing at all.)

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
Thanks. :)

I'm glad to hear that I've encouraged you to read fic regardless of pairing. There's so much out there; it makes me sad to think of all the good fic that people who only read one pairing are missing.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 08:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wickedprincess3.livejournal.com
I get really sick of the sappy fluffy Buffy-as-Mary-Sue, crying her eyes out missing her twu wuv Spike, wish-fulfillment Spuffy.
I agree so much with that. I just can't buy the idea that Buffy's even really thinking all that much about Spike. Certainly not pining or waiting for him. While some good fic has been written around it, I always have to put on my "suspension of belief" blinders when reading it.

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
IMO, Buffy's thoughts about Spike post-"Chosen" are limited to the occasional:

- Buffy's upset. She wants to take out her aggression on someone who doesn't matter. She realizes that her walking, talking punching bag is gone. She feels a mild bit of irritation at Spike for dying.

- Buffy's horny. She wants sex without consequences. She realizes that her walking, talking dildo is gone. She feels a mild bit of irritation at Spike for dying.

- Buffy's sad. Someone has hurt her pwecious little feelings. She wants someone to give her emotional validation without criticism, regardless of whether she actually deserves it. She realizes that her walking, talking self-esteem booster is gone. She feels a mild bit of irritation at Spike for dying.

- Buffy's bored. She wants to bitch about her day to someone who will approve of and validate everything she's done, then tell her what a wonderful person she is, regardless of whether she actually deserves it. She feels a mild bit of irritation at Spike for dying.

- Buffy's lonely. She wants someone to cuddle her and make her feel good about herself without requiring her to offer any affection or comfort in return. She feels a mild bit of irritation at Spike for dying.

But in all likelihood, she's already dragged some other poor, unsuspecting dope into her little melodramatic life and is currently using him for all this.

Re:

From: [identity profile] miggy.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 09:06 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 09:08 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] paratti.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 10:32 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 10:44 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] irfikos.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 09:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 08:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sangpassionne.livejournal.com
Fascinating set of stats. The migration from S/X to S/A is expected of course, but it's interesting that there hasn't been a similar move from Spuffy to, say, Spike/Fred. Like you say, the Spuffy hearts are still pining.

And BTW, I totally agree on the post-season 6 Spuffy romance thing. She has so much growth to do that being in a relationship with anyone right now would be a terrible mistake. Not that Spike's perfect but I can't help feeling he actually does relationships relatively well for a vampire.

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 09:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
Thanks. :)

I'm glad that S/X is still somewhat popular and hasn't faded into obscurity or anything. It definitely still has its devotees.

And it's cool to see S/A getting more attention; there's so much interesting ground to explore there.

It depresses me about S/B, though. Spuffy: it's the new B/A.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harmonyfb.livejournal.com
She might have missed his constant boot-licking post-"Chosen," but she sure as hell didn't miss him, and I'm certain she's not mourning him.

On that, we agree completely. And yet, I find S/B just the hottest thing going - on paper. Go figure.

But on AtS - I'm thrilled that SMG won't be making an appearance. Run, Spike, run far away! Be free!

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 09:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
I can still read and enjoy early S/B, but almost anything set post-"Smashed" just makes me ill.

Maybe part of it is that what I think about a person determines to a large degree whether I find them attractive. I find post-S5 Buffy to be a repulsive human being (in terms of behavior) so I subsequently find her completely physically grotesque, too. Imagining her having sex? Eeeeewwww. The only thing I want to see that stone-cold heartless bitch doing is dying horribly.

(Just to be clear, I mean the character, not the actress, who I don't know and don't judge and certainly wouldn't wish dead.)

OTOH, I can enjoy different "Buffies," like for example, [livejournal.com profile] rahirah's. She's such an alternate Buffy--a Buffy who grew in a completely different way, into a decent human being. I have no problem seeing her with Spike.

Re:

From: [identity profile] jonesiexxx.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-31 05:22 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 08:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] circe-tigana.livejournal.com
Hmmm. Very interesting. Thanks for posting these!

Personally I found that in the fall my interest in Spike/Xander began to seriously wane. I actively dislike Spike/Angel, and I found myself really interested in reading romantic Spuffy again ::hides::

But yeah. Post-Chosen I find I'm all about Buffy/Spike, but my preference is DEFINITELY for stories that take place Season 5 and earlier.

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 09:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
Awww. I'm sorry to hear that you're not so into S/X anymore. I love the way that you write them.

(Romantic Spuffy? Ewwww.)

Um, sorry. I mean, to each her own, and all that. ;)

I tend to be pretty pairing neutral, except for my dislike of S/B. I do admit to a bit of a preference for S/X and S/A. (More because I think each has a dynamic that can lead to interesting characterizations and themes, though, than for a particular interest in seeing the two guys together.)

I think a lot of people are probably with you in seeking earlier S/B -- it probably accounts for the prominence of post-"Gift," post-"Fool for Love," and during and post-"Something Blue" in the episode section.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chase820.livejournal.com
Very interesting statistics. I'm not a bit surprised about the ongoing prevalence of Spuffiness--I still get twice as much feedback for Thrall, even in its unfinished state, than I do about Eldorado.

I completely understand your prejudice about post-"Chosen" Spuffy fics. I've read very, very few of them, simply because after "First Date" I concluded Buffy in no way, shape, or form deserved him. I had an idea for a post-"Chosen" Spuffy fic where Spike comes back from the dead, Buffy goes to see him, and he tells her the Hellmouth burned out all his love for her. But I was so sick of Buffy by then I couldn't stand to write her, even if it was to show her getting smacked down by Spike.

I'm surprised Spike/Faith didn't make the pairings list at all. They seem like such a natural couple to me.

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 08:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harmonyfb.livejournal.com
But I was so sick of Buffy by then I couldn't stand to write her, even if it was to show her getting smacked down by Spike.

Hey, I killed her in my post-Season 7 fic. Twice. ;)

Next, I'm working on my S3 Glimpses-continuation. You know, back when she was still fun to listen to, and the UST was thick on the ground.

Re:

From: [identity profile] chase820.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 08:31 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] fenchurche.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 09:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] chase820.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 10:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] paratti.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 08:32 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] harmonyfb.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 08:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] paratti.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 08:38 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 09:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] chase820.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 10:25 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 10:55 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 08:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harmonyfb.livejournal.com
Hey...speaking of fic archivage...did you get the last one I sent you? Or were you just horrified by the entire S/R thing, and not want to say so for fear of hurting my feelings? ::chuckle::

I understand if you don't want to archive it, sweetie. :) It squicks me out, too.

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
Oh, I did get it. I'm sorry! School started this week and I'm so behind on everything. (I know, excuses suck. I'm sorry, again.)

Wasn't it originally posted on April Fool's Day? One thing I thought when re-reading it is that it sort of loses its impact if not read then. It could be interpreted as just another Spike-bashing fic. So I was sort of thinking maybe I could wait until April 1 to archive it?

What do you think?

(I don't even have a problem with Spike/Riley--I dislike Xander and Angel nearly as much as I dislike Riley, yet I can enjoy S/X and S/A. And [livejournal.com profile] eliade's Spike/Riley is one of my favorite stories.)

Re:

From: [identity profile] harmonyfb.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 11:01 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 08:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dkfeatherstone.livejournal.com
I want to respond to your comment about post Season Seven Buffy. I saw her as loving Spike, but not in a sappy way. I think she has loved Spike all through Season Six and Season Seven, but she couldn’t get past the fact that he started out as a vampire enemy. She loved him in spite of that, but she was not willing to indulge the love and instead maintained a constant state of denial even to herself. She still found it unseemly for her to be in love with a vampire. I know you can now say, what about Angel? But the fact remains that she met Angel and fell in love with him when he was an ally and not evil. Perhaps if Angelus had surfaced before she fell in love with him, then things would have been different.

I agree that she heartlessly used Spike in Season Six. She was emotionlly broken. But I would say that she still loved him but just would not admit it to herself. She alluded to this in Season Seven, when she asked Willow, “Does everyone think I’m still in love with Spike?”

The other thing that kept her so distant in Season Seven was taking her role as Slayer and savior of the world so very seriously. Serious to the point of dullness I must add. She was particularly lacking the grace under pressure that she exhibited in earlier seasons. And she was constantly inconsiderate and selfish, but my take is that she was trying to keep her focus on the war with the First. Love could wait. As the season ending neared she was mellowing, because she knew this might be their final days together.

I agree that the sappy fluffy love was not there and never could be.

I would agree that she could use some therapy to help her demonstrate and acknowledge her love. A problem that has been a continuing theme throughout the series.

I am not trying to change your mind or attitude. We all see the same show but interpret it differently. I think the fact that we do see it in so many different ways, proves how layered and complex and entertaining the show was.

I admire you and your Website. I always enjoy reading your insightful posts, even when they run counter to my own thinking.

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 10:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
Thanks. :)

I definitely think that different people can (validly) interpret the show in different ways. Though I think that's more because of the differences in individual people than it is because of the quality of the show.

I think that in later seasons ME ceased to tell a story with any kind of conviction, and instead played a sort of political game based more on pleasing fan factions and merchandisers and network executives.

They did a whole lot to basically keep Buffy/Spike and Buffy/Angel as viable couples -- keeping as much hope alive for each while trying not to offend fans of the other.

So in the end, you can interpret a lot of it however the hell you want, because there's really no "truth" there, just a bunch of political manipulation designed to make fans with totally different POVs feel like they got what they wanted out of it. You can interpret S7 as Buffy moving on from Spike, Buffy loving or using or being indifferent to Spike, Spike moving on from Buffy, Spike utterly devoted to Buffy, Spike knowing Buffy loved him, Spike knowing Buffy didn't love him, Buffy loving Angel, Buffy being totally over Angel, etc. There's canonical support for all of these; it just depends on what you wanted to see.

That said, what I saw was Buffy the heartless, cruel, pathetic, selfish, melodramatic, narcissistic, self-righteous, cowardly, abusive, delusional monster with a gigantic martyr-complex and an overdeveloped sense of self-importance. I think she needs vast amounts of therapy to teach her to recognize the value of individual people regardless of what they can do for her -- I don't think she's been capable of that for years.

Re:

From: [identity profile] dkfeatherstone.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 10:38 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] shadowlass.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 11:24 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 11:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] drujan.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 11:39 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 11:58 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cindergal.livejournal.com
Very interesting statistics. I know if I had more sex in my stories they'd get more readers. Ah, well. Of course, I am currently in the process of writing such a story, but not to get more readers. Really. ;-)

And thanks for archiving my post-Chosen Spuffy - it was probably torture for you. *g* Did you read my Spike/Dawn drabble? See, I'm branching out.

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 10:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
I know if I had more sex in my stories they'd get more readers.

The funny thing is that I usually don't even notice when there's sex in a story. It's so not on my radar; just not what I'm interested in when I read fic. (Though I do tend to get annoyed when an interesting, character-driven story suddenly turns into PWP and uses sex to resolve/gloss over all the interesting issues.)

Ooh, you wrote Spike/Dawn? I must go find this. :)

I know there was this huge drabble thing a while back that I missed out on--I really need to go read through all of those.

Re:

From: [identity profile] cindergal.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 11:18 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 10:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kita0610.livejournal.com
I can't read Spuffy post Seeing Red for the opposite reason, and we'll never agree, but I gotta give you kudos for archiving stories you actively dislike. I can't make myself do that no matter how many people wanna read them.

You have some killer S/A up on your site. I'm so glad you embraced the slash, it's like the counterpoint to Slashing the Angel. :}

Re:

Date: 2004-01-30 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
I gotta give you kudos for archiving stories you actively dislike. I can't make myself do that no matter how many people wanna read them.

Thanks. :) Though I'm not really sure if it's a good thing. I mean, it's nice for readers and writers, but it's sort of like I'm selling out what I want in order to please others. (I guess it's the question of whether my site is just "Archive of fic that I like, simply because I like it" or "Community service for Spike fans; good fic as free from my personal bias as possible." Originally it was just supposed to be fic that I really liked, but then, back then I only imagined archiving 20 - 30 stories. Now it's definitely leaning toward "Community service," since I find myself archiving stories that I think are objectively good even though I don't particularly care for them.)

You have some killer S/A up on your site. I'm so glad you embraced the slash, it's like the counterpoint to Slashing the Angel.

Thank you so much. :) That means a lot coming from you.

Re:

From: [identity profile] kita0610.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-30 11:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-31 12:09 am (UTC) - Expand

Re:

From: [identity profile] kita0610.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-31 03:46 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-30 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drujan.livejournal.com
absolutely do not buy that post-S6 Buffy could possibly have loved, cared about, or valued Spike on his own terms without vast amounts of therapy and personal-growth. All canonical evidence indicates that he was simply a useful thing to her and that she was pathologically incapable of recognizing the value of anyone but herself or someone who does something for her. She might have missed his constant boot-licking post-"Chosen," but she sure as hell didn't miss him, and I'm certain she's not mourning him. I get really sick of the sappy fluffy Buffy-as-Mary-Sue, crying her eyes out missing her twu wuv Spike, wish-fulfillment Spuffy.

You go, girl! A.k.a., what she said. :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-31 01:15 am (UTC)
ext_1771: Joe Flanigan looking A-Dorable. (Default)
From: [identity profile] monanotlisa.livejournal.com
Heh. Always love your site stats, Laura: they *are* pretty telling, I don't doubt it.

& :-) Still a Spuffy fan with a vastly different perspective on this particular pairing and the S/B dynamics, but, of course, I can't fault you for your bitter feelings.

By the way, I really wanted to tell you how much I appreciate you for still archiving S/B. I know you loathe it more than anything, so the way you keep giving us the best and brightest Spuffy fic is just a grand gesture on your part--

thanks.

Re:

Date: 2004-01-31 01:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
Thanks. :)

It's not exactly that I loathe the fic. I loathe Buffy and the way that ME wrote her. There are several S/B stories that I love, a few more than I enjoy, and quite a few that I respect even if I don't particularly enjoy them.

I respect that people can see the characters differently than I do, and thus, write positive fic about S/B. I don't respect fic that throws characterization and canon to the wind in favor of wish-fulfillment, though. (I know it's a fine line, and very much in the eye of the beholder.)

I don't want the S/B writers that I've archived to think that I don't value their work, because I do. I wouldn't have archived it if I didn't find something of value that made up for what is, IMO, out-of-character and/or thematically offensive. I know that's a back-handed complement, but it's really not a comment on that person's writing; it's a comment on ME's. (Well, and only a comment on that person's writing in the sense that their fiction is good enough to make me overlook that which repulses me about the character and situation that ME created.)

I don't think that makes any sense. Or maybe it does and it's grotesquely offensive. *sigh* Sorry.

Re: the new "post comment"

From: [identity profile] monanotlisa.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-01-31 11:06 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-31 03:26 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I absolutely do not buy that post-S6 Buffy could possibly have loved, cared about, or valued Spike on his own terms without vast amounts of therapy and personal-growth.

An absolutely understandable point of view. :) My fanfic kink is abusive season 6 Buffy who slowly but surely goes through that personal-growth you mention. Herself's Bittersweet series does this well, I think.

I'm also intrigued by Nan Dibble's Buffy who, we find out, was incapable of feeling empathy towards Spike because that part of her was used to create Dawn.

There's just so many talented S/B writers out there who give me what I wanted--but didn't get--from the show.

Thank you for archiving so many of them.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-31 08:02 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I check your site every evening, looking for new fanfic. I enjoy most pairings, though some do GACK me. And, honestly, when GACKED, it's usually because of the story, or the ages of the couple. (For example, most S/D leaves me cold, cold, cold. However, I am currently enjoying wisteria's Antiquities, because Dawn is in her late 20's, no longer a teen-ager.

For me, one of the best things about Joss Whedon's characters is that they are so adaptable, so real, so credible in so many situations, with so many different people, on either a het/slash pairing.

My first readings of fanfic were S/B, then I tentatively branched out to S/A, then to S/X, and now I will read any pairing as long as it's well-written and the writer has the "voice" of the characters spot on.
I have tried reading B/A (at other sites), but that pairing generally leaves me pretty cold. And, I mean, what can they DO? It's a teen romance between a 15-18 year old and her 26 year old vampire boyfriend, and they can't ever get it on or he goes evil. Where can they go from there? Not big with the C/A either. Not big with Cordy past season 2-1/2 anyway. (I do like the Gwen/Angel pairing, however. a lot. and, if it had been developed better on the show, I could've easily gone for A/K.)

I think most readers of fanfic of Buffy/Angel series want to read more about their favorite 'ship. I think too, that for 5 years the B/S ship has been sailing happily. Now that the show is over and Spike is on AtS, and SMG is not gonna be on AtS anytime this millennium, the B/S shippers are not just in limbo; the ship has sailed away. And, as of Damage, so are the B/A shippers. Result? more "unconventional" shipping will be desired!

I enjoy reading B/S fanfic in all seasons. The good, the bad, the ugly, and the indifferent. Why? because they are interesting characters and their energy, their chemistry lives on the page.

Same with S/A. Lots of chemistry there. Also, their relationship involves matters of power,albeit differently manifested than the power plays of B/S. I also think the popularity of shows like QAF has helped the slash ships to sail -in all its manifestations. It's interesting to note who is currently writing slash that's also a watcher of QAF and maybe wriiting QAF fanfic.

Spike/Xander doesn't cut it too much for me, although I do read it. In fact, I consider Modus Vivendi, it's sequel, and Bus Stop Boxer to be among the best fanfic out there. of any fic. Just well written, compelling characters, great plots. just. so. well. worth. the time.

I also enjoy reading Spike/Faith, Spike/Fred, even though I know it won't be canon. Spike/Willow has no appeal for me. Don't know why; just doesn't. Most of what I've read that's S/W has been too dark and way too "un-credible". Same for Spike/Tara, although there's a good novel, Quiet as a Mouse, which is totally AU, extremely AU, yet, the writer took the main characters, stretched a bit, and wrote a good fantasy novel. So...for THIS sitch, I bought the S/T.

I particularly enjoyed a Spike/Anne pairing, but only 1 story with that ship. I've been looking for Spike/Gwen, but no go.

This rambling, late night comment was just to let you know that I appreciate reading ALL the pairings, and yes, Buffy and Spike, too. Spuffy-stuff can be highly enjoyable, especially since Buffy and Spike are so bendable. Bitchy!Buffy/Spike can be good reading, as can RemorsefulandLoving!Buffy/Spike. The important thing, for me, is that _I_ know which Buffy & which Spike are being cast in the story.

You've got the best archive on the Net; you've got beaucoup de tales; they are easy to find (not just pairing, author, title, but, whoa: time period, episode,etc.). In fact, allaboutspike is not first in my fanfic bookmarks because of the alphabet; it's because of the diversity, the size, the quality of the writing, and the ease of finding what I may be looking for at any given time.

Needless to say, I appreciate the time that you take to find good stories, cross-index them, maintain diversity in 'ships, and occasionally produce stats that leave me with a drool and a thud. (social scientist here: standard issue science nerd.)

thanks for the postings. You made my day.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-01-31 08:56 pm (UTC)
spikewriter: (Default)
From: [personal profile] spikewriter
Interesting stats. I had a huge drop for my site during the summer, but since I didn't post anything new during that time, I shouldn't be surprised. What I was surprised to see was the upsurge in visits when I started posting again -- and my stuff is decidedly Spuffy.

I absolutely do not buy that post-S6 Buffy could possibly have loved, cared about, or valued Spike on his own terms without vast amounts of therapy and personal-growth.

I actually pretty much agree with that -- and you know I still like Buffy. The girl is messed up and needs some serious therapy work. Frankly, by the end of the series, even if she really truly had come to love Spike, there was a whole ton o' issues that needed to be handled first before she could deal with a relationship with him or anyone.

Looking back at my own work, I see that I've had Giles and Spike discuss getting her a therapist, actually had Buffy come back "wrong" with duelling psyches that is slowly driving her nuts, and had her go through therapy in a future fic...and she's still got problems. But then, I believe people are always works in progress. Even when I've had them push past the badness of S6 without major reprecussions, I've tried to hint that there are speed bumps they're going to encounter, even if you don't see it in the story themselves. And as well all know, take a speed bump too fast and you could really screw up your car.

As for mourning him, I think she might well be mourning an idealized imagine of him, much as she held up Angel once he'd gone. In fact, now that Angel is working with the Evil Lawyers, that idealized imagine may have nudged Angel out of the way...but I seriously doubt a corporeal Spike who suddenly appeared to let her know he wasn't dead would live up to that image.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-02-02 03:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oneechan19.livejournal.com
www.allaboutspike.com is your website? cool, I go to it all the time. I just started reading the Spike/Xander there.

Re:

Date: 2004-02-04 06:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
Thanks. :) Hope you enjoy.

rusty-halo.com

I blog about fannish things. Busy with work so don't update often. Mirrored at rusty-halo.com.

August 2018

S M T W T F S
   1234
56789 1011
12131415161718
19202122232425
262728293031 

Most Popular Tags

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags