Thoughts on Ep 18
Feb. 22nd, 2003 03:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rusty_haloJust read the ep 18 spoilers. Unlike apparently everyone else on the face of the planet, I love the idea of Spike and Faith.
It could be happening just to make Buffy finally realize just how much she cares about Spike. Anything that spurs her into action is a good thing, since we only have four episodes after this and S/B has been in stasis way too long.
Or it could be happening to set up a Spike/Faith ship, possibly for a spinoff. I adore this idea. First of all, I want Spike to have a place in the spin-off (for obvious reasons), and if he's the lead character's love interest it means he'll get lots of screentime. Also, I'm terribly sick of seeing Spike moon over Buffy. Anything that helps him to get over her is wonderful, IMO. (I tend to think of Spike the same way I'd think of a female friend who was dating a complete creep. "Girl, you're *better* than him! You don't need him to define your existence! You can find someone else, or be happier on your own." Only, y'know, reverse the genders).
Ahem. Anyway. And finally, I like the idea of Spike/Faith simply because I like the way the characters would interact. They have a lot more in common than Spike/Buffy. Faith, who has actually *been* bad, and who has made terribly wrong choices, can understand what Spike's going through now and who he has become much more than "I never do anything wrong" Buffy ever could. Also, Faith doesn't seem to ever have been loved, unlike Buffy who seems to be loved by everyone. Faith would appreciate Spike's love much more than Buffy does. Because it's not preceded by years of worship and adoration, Spike and Faith would have a much more equal relationship than Spike/Buffy (in which Buffy is and always will be the dominant partner). Also, Faith's lack of repression fits Spike much better than Buffy's ultra-repression. Faith and Spike could actually have a relationship and have FUN together! And I don't mean doing evil, I just mean enjoying life, enjoying fighting, enjoying sex, enjoying everything that Buffy refuses to allow herself to enjoy because "it's wrong" or she has to focus on "duty."
Anyway, I'm not a shipper at all, so I'm not terribly attached to any of these ideas. But I do think the Spike/Faith stuff in 18 can only be a good thing, no matter which way it goes.
The objection I keep hearing is that people dislike Faith because she's a "skanky ho" or something to that effect. This always feels weirdly sexist, repressed/judgemental, and uncomfortable to me, although I can't pinpoint exactly why. (But then it also always bothered me that the show portrayed her sexuality as closely associated with her violent tendencies. Her violence, obviously, was bad, but I don't see anything wrong with a powerful and sexual woman. Too often ME seems to portray sexuality as "bad" anytime that it's not weak/timid/traditional/"normal".)
The other objection people seem to have is that it's some kind of mortal sin for Spike to show interest in any female other than Buffy. Well, Buffy has told him to move on numerous times. It can only benefit Spike's emotional health for him to get over her, and possibly to find someone who will actually appreciate the depth and power of his ability to love.
As for the rest of the episode ... Principal Wood telling Buffy what to do pisses me off immensely, as does Buffy sucking up to him after he tried to kill Spike in the previous episode. But for heaven's sake, she should have quit that moronic job as soon as the SIT's started arriving.
Caleb sounds like he'll be a really cool villain (I think the First has been rather unintersting due to its lack of emotion), although the mysogynist angle has gotten really, really old. But hey, it'll give me some fodder for the "Buffy as feminist statement" paper I'm writing later this semester. (Yeah, old news, but easy grade).
I'm worried that the series is going to spend its final episodes preparing for the spin-off rather than focusing on the characters we know and care about. (I understand that "Highlander" did this in its final season, to the frustration of fans, although I had stopped watching by then). I really, really hope that Joss will be able to balance this properly.
Thanks to everyone who replied to my "venting" post yesterday. I really appreciate the encouragement. And now that I have a whole weekend to read and archive fic, I'm feeling much better.
It could be happening just to make Buffy finally realize just how much she cares about Spike. Anything that spurs her into action is a good thing, since we only have four episodes after this and S/B has been in stasis way too long.
Or it could be happening to set up a Spike/Faith ship, possibly for a spinoff. I adore this idea. First of all, I want Spike to have a place in the spin-off (for obvious reasons), and if he's the lead character's love interest it means he'll get lots of screentime. Also, I'm terribly sick of seeing Spike moon over Buffy. Anything that helps him to get over her is wonderful, IMO. (I tend to think of Spike the same way I'd think of a female friend who was dating a complete creep. "Girl, you're *better* than him! You don't need him to define your existence! You can find someone else, or be happier on your own." Only, y'know, reverse the genders).
Ahem. Anyway. And finally, I like the idea of Spike/Faith simply because I like the way the characters would interact. They have a lot more in common than Spike/Buffy. Faith, who has actually *been* bad, and who has made terribly wrong choices, can understand what Spike's going through now and who he has become much more than "I never do anything wrong" Buffy ever could. Also, Faith doesn't seem to ever have been loved, unlike Buffy who seems to be loved by everyone. Faith would appreciate Spike's love much more than Buffy does. Because it's not preceded by years of worship and adoration, Spike and Faith would have a much more equal relationship than Spike/Buffy (in which Buffy is and always will be the dominant partner). Also, Faith's lack of repression fits Spike much better than Buffy's ultra-repression. Faith and Spike could actually have a relationship and have FUN together! And I don't mean doing evil, I just mean enjoying life, enjoying fighting, enjoying sex, enjoying everything that Buffy refuses to allow herself to enjoy because "it's wrong" or she has to focus on "duty."
Anyway, I'm not a shipper at all, so I'm not terribly attached to any of these ideas. But I do think the Spike/Faith stuff in 18 can only be a good thing, no matter which way it goes.
The objection I keep hearing is that people dislike Faith because she's a "skanky ho" or something to that effect. This always feels weirdly sexist, repressed/judgemental, and uncomfortable to me, although I can't pinpoint exactly why. (But then it also always bothered me that the show portrayed her sexuality as closely associated with her violent tendencies. Her violence, obviously, was bad, but I don't see anything wrong with a powerful and sexual woman. Too often ME seems to portray sexuality as "bad" anytime that it's not weak/timid/traditional/"normal".)
The other objection people seem to have is that it's some kind of mortal sin for Spike to show interest in any female other than Buffy. Well, Buffy has told him to move on numerous times. It can only benefit Spike's emotional health for him to get over her, and possibly to find someone who will actually appreciate the depth and power of his ability to love.
As for the rest of the episode ... Principal Wood telling Buffy what to do pisses me off immensely, as does Buffy sucking up to him after he tried to kill Spike in the previous episode. But for heaven's sake, she should have quit that moronic job as soon as the SIT's started arriving.
Caleb sounds like he'll be a really cool villain (I think the First has been rather unintersting due to its lack of emotion), although the mysogynist angle has gotten really, really old. But hey, it'll give me some fodder for the "Buffy as feminist statement" paper I'm writing later this semester. (Yeah, old news, but easy grade).
I'm worried that the series is going to spend its final episodes preparing for the spin-off rather than focusing on the characters we know and care about. (I understand that "Highlander" did this in its final season, to the frustration of fans, although I had stopped watching by then). I really, really hope that Joss will be able to balance this properly.
Thanks to everyone who replied to my "venting" post yesterday. I really appreciate the encouragement. And now that I have a whole weekend to read and archive fic, I'm feeling much better.
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-02-22 02:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-02-22 03:11 pm (UTC)Spike's still been SO All. About. Buffy. this year, it would make more sense if it took him a little while to get over her--say, the first season of the spin-off. This would give him and Faith a chance to form a real friendship. We haven't seen a true male/female friendship in the Jossverse awhile, it would be nice to have that before we get to the snogging.
Though if eventually they do get Spike and Faith to the snogging, woo hoo! 'Cause you just know these two are going to be hot enough to melt the polar ice caps.
Can't wait for this eppy--seeing Buffy all jealous and possessive after her irritating little "move on" speech to Spike in "First Date" is going to be just delicious.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-02-22 03:26 pm (UTC)Yes, definitely. I doubt think S/F will happen on BtVS. But the fact that the writers are even trying them out is good news for Spike's role in the spin-off; you don't see them trying out Faith/Xander, for example.
Also, it looks likely that the last 5 episodes of S7 will focus heavily on Faith, which probably means that the other characters will lose screentime to her. Having Spike's story intwined with Faith's means that he'll get more screentime in the last few eps.
>>Spike's still been SO All. About. Buffy. this year, it would make more sense if it took him a little while to get over her--say, the first season of the spin-off. This would give him and Faith a chance to form a real friendship. We haven't seen a true male/female friendship in the Jossverse awhile, it would be nice to have that before we get to the snogging.<<
I would definitely like to see such a friendship, although I doubt it would lack sexual tension given the highly charged sexual natures of both Spike and Faith.
I have no doubt that it'll take Spike a while to get over Buffy. But I'd really, really like to see it, and I think that ep 17 will give Spike enough confidence that he'll no longer have to cling to Buffy and beg for her approval.
>>Can't wait for this eppy--seeing Buffy all jealous and possessive after her irritating little "move on" speech to Spike in "First Date" is going to be just delicious.<<
Hehehe. Although I didn't actually mind her speech in "First Date," since she didn't really seem to mean it. But after all her crap in seasons five, six, and early seven, jealous Buffy is going to make me very happy.
Re:
Date: 2003-02-22 04:04 pm (UTC)Oh yeah--there would have to be that aspect. They wouldn't be Spike and Faith if they didn't flirt a little. Which is why they could have a great deal of fun drawing out the sexual tension between these two for, like, ever on the spin-off.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-02-22 07:54 pm (UTC)You're definitely not alone! I would love to see Spike truly move on, whether with Faith or someone else. (I'd love to see Spike paired with Willow, but somehow doubt that'll ever happen, since ME seems to have decided that she's "gay now" as opposed to bi.)
If the spinoff included JM and ED, I'd happily climb onboard HMS Spaith.