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(no subject)
Oct. 16th, 2003 05:02 am( episode 8 )
Oct. 16th, 2003
(no subject)
Oct. 16th, 2003 06:46 am( trying to be more positive about episode 8 )
Can you tell I'm procrastinating on the whole "studying for midterms" thing?
Off to get one hour of sleep before I have to get up for work. Pray the jackhammers don't start up before I can get a full hour in.
Can you tell I'm procrastinating on the whole "studying for midterms" thing?
Off to get one hour of sleep before I have to get up for work. Pray the jackhammers don't start up before I can get a full hour in.
(no subject)
Oct. 16th, 2003 11:05 amI'm a Spike fan. Not an Angel fan. Not a Buffy fan. A Spike fan. Spike is the character that I find interesting and intriguing and fun to watch. I would not be watching either show if he wasn't on it. If he ceased to be on it, I would stop watching.
I find most of the other characters at best only mildly interesting, and at worst, tiresome and irritating. I think that some of the plots are interesting, and a lot of them aren't. The ME brand of "feminism" makes me violently ill and I'd never watch another of their shows again if I didn't want to see Spike. Spike is actually the only fictional character I care about enough to watch TV for; without him I'd probably get rid of my television and not miss it.
So what if my character's not in the title? I'm not going to rearrange my preferences and pretend to be interested in characters that I don't care about just because they're the supposed "real" central characters.
You think this makes me a bad fan? Fuck off. I don't need your approval, and there is nothing wrong with watching for one character.
I find most of the other characters at best only mildly interesting, and at worst, tiresome and irritating. I think that some of the plots are interesting, and a lot of them aren't. The ME brand of "feminism" makes me violently ill and I'd never watch another of their shows again if I didn't want to see Spike. Spike is actually the only fictional character I care about enough to watch TV for; without him I'd probably get rid of my television and not miss it.
So what if my character's not in the title? I'm not going to rearrange my preferences and pretend to be interested in characters that I don't care about just because they're the supposed "real" central characters.
You think this makes me a bad fan? Fuck off. I don't need your approval, and there is nothing wrong with watching for one character.
Seriously, how is it okay for someone to say "I don't care about Spike, and I'm upset that he's taking time away from my characters," but when a Spike fan says "I don't care about Angel, and I'm worried about Spike's characterization" that makes us RABID SPIKE FEN? The double standard right there is plain as day. It's okay for them to worry about their characters, but it's somehow wrong for us to worry that our character is getting shafted? On what planet is that fair?
You know what else? I've watched BtVS and AtS both from their very first episodes, minus some lulls where I got bored or fell asleep in the middle. It's not like I'm hopping on the bandwagon and not knowing anything about the show; I watch the show. But now that Spike's here, for the first time, I actually care about the show.
I suppose some people out there watch the show and love every character equally. But most of us identify with one or two characters in particular and care most about their stories. And again, I ask, if the character I happen to care about is Spike, why does that mean there's something wrong with me? There's nothing wrong with a Wesley fan caring most about Wesley, or an Angel fan caring most about Angel. I'm not going to hold that against them. But why, when it's Spike, is it a problem?
And, oh yes, why is there something wrong with me if I don't care about Buffy/Angel/Wes/Lorne/whoever? I see this all the time; you're a "bad fan" if you don't care about Buffy. Huh? Says who? I find her behavior horrific and her personality loathesome. Why does this make me a rotten nasty person?--I dislike her precisely because her behavior offends my morality! It's like, how dare I have an opinion that's not all sunshine and roses and praise Joss? And no one bitches about the Buffy fans who go on about how they can't stand that evil nasty Spike, but it's wrong for the Spike fans to dislike Buffy? Why? The only reason I can see is that she's prioritized by the narrative, she's in the title, etc., but that is just not relevant to me because authorial intent is not my method of interpreting a text. The writers may want me to care mostly about Buffy, but if she falls flat to me and Spike feels real and meaningful, then I'm going to care about Spike.
Y'know, part of the reason I like these shows is that they make me think. And part of thinking means being critical. It would be pretty damn lame (and dishonest with myself) if I watched every episode going "Yay! Joss is wonderful! Everything is so good!" Um, no. BtVS made me think a whole lot about morality and ethics and remorse and atonement and different varieties of feminism and the media's portrayal of "girl power!" and my idea of a strong women and what defines an equal relationship and how does power function in society and a whole lot of interesting things that I might never have considered before. And a lot of the time, the reason I considered these really interesting issues was that I found something disturbing or upsetting in the way BtVS was written and I tried to figure out why it upset me. I really disapprove of the way feminism has been portrayed on BtVS and it's made me think about what feminism means to me, and even though my opinion is negative in regards to BtVS it's been a positive and enlightening realization for me as a person.
So anyway. The whole idea that I'm not allowed to be critical and I have to approve of everything Joss does is just bull, and would significantly take away from my understanding of the show and my ways of interacting with the text. I don't hold it against anyone who does view the show this way, likes all the characters, whatever; it's their right. I respect that. But my opinion is just as valid too.
And really. How would you appreciate being called RABID ANGEL FEN? RABID WESLEY FEN? RABID BUFFY FEN? It's fucking rude. We all have our favorite characters; quit judging the ones that you personally don't like.
You know what else? I've watched BtVS and AtS both from their very first episodes, minus some lulls where I got bored or fell asleep in the middle. It's not like I'm hopping on the bandwagon and not knowing anything about the show; I watch the show. But now that Spike's here, for the first time, I actually care about the show.
I suppose some people out there watch the show and love every character equally. But most of us identify with one or two characters in particular and care most about their stories. And again, I ask, if the character I happen to care about is Spike, why does that mean there's something wrong with me? There's nothing wrong with a Wesley fan caring most about Wesley, or an Angel fan caring most about Angel. I'm not going to hold that against them. But why, when it's Spike, is it a problem?
And, oh yes, why is there something wrong with me if I don't care about Buffy/Angel/Wes/Lorne/whoever? I see this all the time; you're a "bad fan" if you don't care about Buffy. Huh? Says who? I find her behavior horrific and her personality loathesome. Why does this make me a rotten nasty person?--I dislike her precisely because her behavior offends my morality! It's like, how dare I have an opinion that's not all sunshine and roses and praise Joss? And no one bitches about the Buffy fans who go on about how they can't stand that evil nasty Spike, but it's wrong for the Spike fans to dislike Buffy? Why? The only reason I can see is that she's prioritized by the narrative, she's in the title, etc., but that is just not relevant to me because authorial intent is not my method of interpreting a text. The writers may want me to care mostly about Buffy, but if she falls flat to me and Spike feels real and meaningful, then I'm going to care about Spike.
Y'know, part of the reason I like these shows is that they make me think. And part of thinking means being critical. It would be pretty damn lame (and dishonest with myself) if I watched every episode going "Yay! Joss is wonderful! Everything is so good!" Um, no. BtVS made me think a whole lot about morality and ethics and remorse and atonement and different varieties of feminism and the media's portrayal of "girl power!" and my idea of a strong women and what defines an equal relationship and how does power function in society and a whole lot of interesting things that I might never have considered before. And a lot of the time, the reason I considered these really interesting issues was that I found something disturbing or upsetting in the way BtVS was written and I tried to figure out why it upset me. I really disapprove of the way feminism has been portrayed on BtVS and it's made me think about what feminism means to me, and even though my opinion is negative in regards to BtVS it's been a positive and enlightening realization for me as a person.
So anyway. The whole idea that I'm not allowed to be critical and I have to approve of everything Joss does is just bull, and would significantly take away from my understanding of the show and my ways of interacting with the text. I don't hold it against anyone who does view the show this way, likes all the characters, whatever; it's their right. I respect that. But my opinion is just as valid too.
And really. How would you appreciate being called RABID ANGEL FEN? RABID WESLEY FEN? RABID BUFFY FEN? It's fucking rude. We all have our favorite characters; quit judging the ones that you personally don't like.
(no subject)
Oct. 16th, 2003 08:10 pmHere's the thing. Spike fans are defending themselves with "I love AtS too!" And AtS fans are qualifying, "Well, the Spike fans who like AtS too are okay." The issue seems to be with those Spike fans who have the audacity to care only about Spike, not the rest of the show. Those are the people we all have to quality that we are not, so that everyone knows we care about the other characters too, and we watched the show before Spike showed up, and we think Wesley/Angel/Lorne/whoever is cool, etc.
But my question is: what's so wrong with just liking Spike? I addressed this indirectly in my earlier posts, but I still found myself qualifying that I've watched AtS since the beginning. Why do I have to qualify? Why can't it just be "I watch for Spike, the rest is irrelevant, and I'm not going to apologize for it"?
I posted this somewhere private, but I'm reposting it here because it clarifies what I mean:
It's like the Angel fans are deigning to lecture the Spike fans on how to behave, and letting the "good" ones in, the ones who pass "not rabid Spike fen" muster. The ones who don't claim their Spike fandom too intensely, and are sure to make all the proper bows to the authority of the AtS fans. It's incredibly condescending, and it's based on this assumption that Angel fans are somehow superior to Spike fans and have the right to dictate who is acceptable and who is too "rabid."
The thing is, Spike fans have been around a long time, too. And while every character has their own particular fan following, many Spike fans have always felt separate. One reason is that Spike never really fit into the narrative, so aside from Spike/Buffy fans, Spike fans didn't really have that many connections to the rest of the show and characters. You could be a Spike fan and skip everything in season six after "Seeing Red," minus 3 minutes in each following episode, and have that be it. Spike's story was rarely tied very closely into the story that incorporated all the other characters (which I think is very unfortunate, but that's another issue). Another thing is that Spike fans got to be such a *huge* group--ad campaigns and mobbing at conventions and letter writing and their own separate, distinct places in fandom almost completely apart from the rest of BtVS and AtS fandom. Plus, many Spike fans abandoned general boards, like TWOP or the newsgroup, because they got sick of the rampant Spike-bashing. So they retreated to private Spike-centric communities where discussion of other characters and events tended to occur only in relation to Spike.
So now Spike fans are interacting with AtS fans, and the AtS fans think that they get to tell the Spike fans what to do because the Spike fans are joining "their" show. They see the Spike fans as less, underlings that they can lecture and decide which "count" as the acceptable ones. But it doesn't work that way--Spike fans have been around as a group longer than AtS has existed, we have our own deeply rooted ways of behaving and watching and thinking about the character.
I don't mean that Spike fans are better--my point is that neither group is "better." I seriously don't think the AtS fans would appreciate the more prominent members of Spike fandom coming over and lecturing them on how to watch the show, and the same holds true with Spike fans; we don't need prominent members of AtS fandom telling us what to do. If we want to watch the Spike scenes and skip the rest because it bores us, that's our right--just like the AtS fans can (and many prominently are) dismissing the Spike parts, forming groups were no one can talk about Spike, etc.
I'm not saying that's ideal--it would be nice if we could all appreciate everything, Spike fans loving AtS and AtS fans loving Spike. But realistically, that's not going to happen. It's a matter of taste; some Spike fans aren't going to be interested in AtS, and vice versa. That doesn't make either group "better fans," and it certainly doesn't give one group the right to lecture and order around the other.
So if you're a Spike fan and you agree with this, I suggest that we all make sure not to apologize, not to feel the need to qualify and explain and justify our existence. Even if you have been watching from the beginning and you love Angel to pieces--it would be okay if you didn't. The fact that you love Spike is enough, it has value and meaning on its own. And if the AtS fans don't want to accept that, well, too bad. They don't get to define us. They can call us rabid all they want, but we don't have to listen and we don't have to let it define who we are.
But my question is: what's so wrong with just liking Spike? I addressed this indirectly in my earlier posts, but I still found myself qualifying that I've watched AtS since the beginning. Why do I have to qualify? Why can't it just be "I watch for Spike, the rest is irrelevant, and I'm not going to apologize for it"?
I posted this somewhere private, but I'm reposting it here because it clarifies what I mean:
It's like the Angel fans are deigning to lecture the Spike fans on how to behave, and letting the "good" ones in, the ones who pass "not rabid Spike fen" muster. The ones who don't claim their Spike fandom too intensely, and are sure to make all the proper bows to the authority of the AtS fans. It's incredibly condescending, and it's based on this assumption that Angel fans are somehow superior to Spike fans and have the right to dictate who is acceptable and who is too "rabid."
The thing is, Spike fans have been around a long time, too. And while every character has their own particular fan following, many Spike fans have always felt separate. One reason is that Spike never really fit into the narrative, so aside from Spike/Buffy fans, Spike fans didn't really have that many connections to the rest of the show and characters. You could be a Spike fan and skip everything in season six after "Seeing Red," minus 3 minutes in each following episode, and have that be it. Spike's story was rarely tied very closely into the story that incorporated all the other characters (which I think is very unfortunate, but that's another issue). Another thing is that Spike fans got to be such a *huge* group--ad campaigns and mobbing at conventions and letter writing and their own separate, distinct places in fandom almost completely apart from the rest of BtVS and AtS fandom. Plus, many Spike fans abandoned general boards, like TWOP or the newsgroup, because they got sick of the rampant Spike-bashing. So they retreated to private Spike-centric communities where discussion of other characters and events tended to occur only in relation to Spike.
So now Spike fans are interacting with AtS fans, and the AtS fans think that they get to tell the Spike fans what to do because the Spike fans are joining "their" show. They see the Spike fans as less, underlings that they can lecture and decide which "count" as the acceptable ones. But it doesn't work that way--Spike fans have been around as a group longer than AtS has existed, we have our own deeply rooted ways of behaving and watching and thinking about the character.
I don't mean that Spike fans are better--my point is that neither group is "better." I seriously don't think the AtS fans would appreciate the more prominent members of Spike fandom coming over and lecturing them on how to watch the show, and the same holds true with Spike fans; we don't need prominent members of AtS fandom telling us what to do. If we want to watch the Spike scenes and skip the rest because it bores us, that's our right--just like the AtS fans can (and many prominently are) dismissing the Spike parts, forming groups were no one can talk about Spike, etc.
I'm not saying that's ideal--it would be nice if we could all appreciate everything, Spike fans loving AtS and AtS fans loving Spike. But realistically, that's not going to happen. It's a matter of taste; some Spike fans aren't going to be interested in AtS, and vice versa. That doesn't make either group "better fans," and it certainly doesn't give one group the right to lecture and order around the other.
So if you're a Spike fan and you agree with this, I suggest that we all make sure not to apologize, not to feel the need to qualify and explain and justify our existence. Even if you have been watching from the beginning and you love Angel to pieces--it would be okay if you didn't. The fact that you love Spike is enough, it has value and meaning on its own. And if the AtS fans don't want to accept that, well, too bad. They don't get to define us. They can call us rabid all they want, but we don't have to listen and we don't have to let it define who we are.