(no subject)

[rusty_halo]

I love that LiveJournal has turned the Buffy fanfic world into such an interactive writing community. However, from an archivist's perspective, it's made this whole fic archiving thing very difficult. It used to be very clear-cut; a finished story would be posted, on a list or a website, with a title and author and story notes. Then I'd ask for permission, hopefully get it, and archive the story.

But now it's so often this gray area and I never know whether I should ask or not. There's always "this is snippet" or "this was a dream" or "this is an idea I might follow up." Or "this is a meme response" or "I wrote this to cheer up someone" or "this is totally unbeta-ed" or "this might be part of a larger story" or whatever. Sometimes there's a title; sometimes there isn't. Sometimes there are story notes, sometimes there aren't.

Now, the easiest solution would be to say, well, these aren't finished stories, so I'll wait and see if the author turns it into something final and posts it somewhere. But it's not that easy; quite a few authors have taken to only posting things on their LJ. Or, when/if they do post it on their site, it could be weeks or months later and I'll have forgotten by then. If something is really good, I don't want to lose track of it.

So, then the another option is to post in the comments, "I liked this! Do you think I may archive it?" Which feels very weird to do, because some things are really just snippets that the author doesn't want out there officially, so then the author either has to say no or clean up the story, or ignore me, or whatever, and it's awkward. And I feel awkward asking; I want to clarify that, basically, I mean, "When/if you have a final version of this that you're comfortable posting, I would like to have it on my site. But I don't mean to put any pressure on you, and if you don't want me to archive it that's fine." But if I go around posting that everywhere it sounds really pretentious and like I'm making a big deal out of something small.

(ETA: Although, one thing that really helps is that, if you know I tend to ask about archiving your fic and you know you want the story on my site, send me a note when it's finished that you wrote this fic and you're okay with me archiving it if I'd like. People do this occasionally when they want to bring a story to my attention, and it's actually very helpful. That way I don't have to worry about the whole asking for permission/wondering if it's ready to be archived thing. And if you supply title/summary/rating/pairing/time period, that's an extra bonus.)

And then there's the issue with authors that I've never contacted/archived before. I feel okay posting in LJ comments asking someone I'm familiar with if I can archive another of their stories, but I don't feel comfortable posting in LJ comments to someone I don't know. If it's a new author, I want to send them a polite email explaining how my site works and asking if they'd allow me to archive their work. I don't just want to jump out of nowhere going "can I archive it," because likely they won't know who I am or how my site works, and they'll say no. So what do I do when I come across a brilliantly written snippet that I don't want to lose track of from an author I've never contacted before?

Anyway, it's all confusing and annoying. And I'm obsessed with being organized and complete so it's just driving me crazy knowing that I'm losing track of all this really wonderful fic that just sort of slips into the LJ ether.

In other news, the weekend was fun. jaydk and drujan came over Saturday night for "Cheesy Movie Night." We watched The Lost Boys and The Crow, though we ended up thinking that The Crow might not really be a cheesy movie, because it's genuinely sad. The Lost Boys is definitely a cheesy movie, though, and so fun. And drujan hadn't seen it before! So mostly we just drooled over Keifer and laughed at everything else. That's such a classic movie.

We also started out by watching the first two episodes of Angel season five, which was interesting because jaydk and drujan have such opposing views. (drujan didn't like them at all; jaydk loved them, especially episode two). It was fun to discuss, though. After drujan left, jaydk and I watched episode two again. I think I like it more every time I see it. (Please let this season live up to the immense potential it's showing at the beginning.)

We also argued over, if Spike and Angel were played by Depp and Bloom, who would play whom? I think Depp would be Spike and Bloom would be Angel; jaydk disagrees. But, c'mon ... Bloom has that whole stoic, taking-himself-too-seriously Angel thing, and Depp has that whole doesn't-care-what-anyone-thinks completely weird Spike thing. It makes perfect sense.

Then on Sunday the three of us went to see Pirates again. Which is, honestly, a bit too much Pirates for me; I think it was my seventh time seeing it. (And Jane's seen it more than I have, which is just scary). But it was fun to hang out, and that's the important part. :)

Totally random:

I think I'm the only one who doesn't get what's so special about the extra Smashed footage. There's no more Spike than we already had; it's just SMG humping the ground. I care why?

Comments

[hazel75.livejournal.com]

I don't know what your experience has been, but, from my perspective, if I were an author, if I wanted to be archived anywhere, I would be glad to be archived at All About Spike. You honestly have, in my opinion, the best collection of quality BtVS fiction around. I figure if it's at All About Spike I don't need another recommendation.

Not that that answers your questions at all. Just my random two cents about your site.

Re: Smashed, I don't know -- mainly I was curious to see the cut footage. And, while it is Buffy mainly, I found the two of them so hot (honestly think Smashed is the hottest thing I've ever seen on network TV) before everything went to shit, it was fun to see more of them again.

[mogens.livejournal.com]

There's no way Bloom could be Spike. But that might just be my bias against Orlando showing ;).

And I'm with you on the Smashed footage too. I was ready to think it was hot and watch it over and over. But once was enough for me. If I loved Spuffy though (which I most decidedly do not), I think I'd be excited about it.

[gwynnega]

I'd like to second what Hazel said. Plus, I think in general authors love to be contacted about their work (I sure do!), especially in such a positive context.

And re: the "Smashed" thing, what got me the most about the new footage was Spike's expression throughout...

[miggy.livejournal.com]

I haven't even bothered watching the new footage. Meh.

Bloom is definitely Angel, although he would have to tone down on opening his eyes wide and flaring his nostrils when he's very upset. If he's playing Angel, he can't be allowed to show that much emotion.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I haven't even bothered watching the new footage. Meh.

Spare yourself. Seriously. It's icky.

Hee. Yes, you're right about Bloom. And honestly, I don't even think Depp would be capable of playing Angel. There's just always something interesting going on with Johnny Depp; I can't imagine him reaching Angel's level of dullness.

[wickedprincess3.livejournal.com]

It's icky
Yeah, thats what I thought.

[miggy.livejournal.com]

I kind of expected that would be my reaction, actually. If I watched it, I'd just be going, "Oh yeah, Buffy. Shove him up against a wall, have your way with him, and then give him a death threat the next morning if he dares speak a word of how you climbed him. You poor little victim." I don't think I could possibly find any scene sexy if she's involved.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I know, exactly. Who wants to watch a violent, cruel, self-obsessed abuser getting off on her abuse victim as the poor deluded moron lies there with moon eyes and lets her use him? It's even more devastating when you realize what came after: use, abuse, mental breakdown, insanity, death. Uh, yeah, it's so sexy.

[irfikos.livejournal.com]

1. it never hurts to ask. if someone is offended by you asking a perfectly reasonable question then they are psycho and you needn't worry what they think. as long as you're polite and maybe provide a link to your site so they can check it out first i think it's swell.

2. i remember saving up my babysitting money as a kid so i could rent a vcr and rent the movie "lost boys" so i could actually see it. at the time i was in awe of it. but, like knight rider and the a-team, viewing it again, years later... kinda lessened the awe. y'know?

any sequels to the crow are big, moldy piles of cheesy crap. if you've not seen them, good for you. the original movie has its cheesy moments, but still qualifies as a favorite movie of mine.

3. oh, good. someone else who doesn't care about extra smashed footage. yep. they had sex. the building fell down. let's move on, shall we? though... for those who only saw a heavily censored version it must be a nice treat to finally see the actual scene.

[mommanerd.livejournal.com]

The biggest impact for me in the un-cut scene is the intensity of Buffy. I mean, there's Spike laying there completely passive, and Buffy is going to town on him.

To me it makes the confrontation in "Wrecked" that much more condemning for Depresso-Buffy. It also clarifies her guilt over the situation. She's got nobody to blame except herself and she was so into it.

Personally, I was hoping for more Spike too, but I found the additional footage enlightening.

Orlando is Spike!

[jaydk.livejournal.com]

Hee. Nah, I was mostly just foolin' with y'all this weekend because I knew you and Janna would immediately be "Johnny Johnny Johnny!" ;-) I actually think Depp would be the better Spike, but Orlando isn't really right for either role -- he's too young, basically, especially as Angel up against Johnny as Spike, because a fundamental component of the Angel/Spike relationship is the older/younger brother dynamic. Being younger and playing heartfelt passion somewhat slot him into the Spike role. But then Johnny isn't really right for Angel, either, because Angel=emotionally constipated and I have never seen Johnny give a performance anywhere near that (and wouldn't want to). So as thrilled as I was by Lorne's comment, I must sadly disagree on Bloom and Depp being the perfect casting for Spike and Angel, unless Lorne took some liberties with the story. But hey, that was still an awesome comment. ;-)

I saw the Smashed thing too and I was pretty, um, unimpressed. I just don't see the hotness; if anything, it detracted from the thrill of the Smashed scenes to me because it makes it so very clear that Buffy is completely disconnected from anything but her own need at that moment. Spike might as well have been a Spike-bot, basically; she's using him like a dumb animal, and he's taking it. It's really the most unattractive aspect of their relationship on display. I'm glad it got cut, because I really loved those scenes at the time and this? Not so much.

[buffyx.livejournal.com]

Oh, Depp would totally be Spike. No question about it!

As for archiving-- well, if it's a new author on LJ, can't you usually fnd the email address through the User Info Profile? I think that considering how popular All About Spike has become, and how well known it is for supplying great fanfic, most authors would be thrilled to be archived there.

[mahaliem.livejournal.com]

I think Orlando Bloom does passion and intensity extremely well and I see Spike as a passionate and intense character.

However, Depp can be so mesmerizing.

Darn it, I like Angel, but both Depp and Bloom wouldn't be right. How about Geoffrey Rush (Barbossa)?

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

Speaking for me, you can have anything I write and welcome. 98% of anything I put on my Lj ends up on my site as I'm compulsive about having it all in one place. It has to be very ephemeral not to get there.

I also feel a little shy about saying, 'hey, I wrote a Spike fic, do you want it?' in case you don't. It wouldn't bother me because you didn't; it'd bother me in case it bothered you to have to say, 'no'.

Anyway, I did do a Spike fic this week (Tell Me a Story) and if you want it, it's finished and you're very welcome. It's PG13, starts in S5 and flashes back to just after Spike was turned, and has Spike, Dawn and Spike/Dru.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Hey Jane,

Here's "Tell Me a Story":
http://www.allaboutspike.com/fic.html?id=753

Let me know if you'd like me to change anything.

I'm still trying to catch up with everything you have on your site ... some weekend I will sit down and read through every single story and pick stuff to archive. I'm also trying to keep up with your new fic as you write it.

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

Thanks for archiving it; looks good ::hugs:: I like the unfussiness of your site; it's one reason I went to using plain black on white on mine; when I click on an older story with a coloured background, it quite makes me blink now ::grin::

I think you've archived most of my Spike fics that fit your site by now, but if you like I'll take a look to save you wading through 100+ fics and send you any you might be interested in. I keep thinking I must try and divide them up again as I want stories to be easy to find and some of the sections are getting very long.

[ascian3.livejournal.com]

If it makes you feel any easier about contacting new authors, I can tell you that I was thrilled when you popped up in the comments on the first fic I posted on LJ with an offer to archive it. Other people's mileage may vary, of course, but that was my reaction. I think more people are aware of your archive than you might think - it's become one of the best sources out there. Maybe the best. I wish there was something like it for non-Spike fic. Can we clone you or something?

[queenofattolia.livejournal.com]

I think I'm the only one who doesn't get what's so special about the extra Smashed footage. There's no more Spike than we already had; it's just SMG humping the ground. I care why?

Thank you, Laura -- you always say what I'm thinking. I for one didn't find it "hot" at all -- I might have had they shown this when it first aired and I didn't know what horrors awaited Spike in the next year and a half, but not now. It's just depressing to see Buffy embarking on her sideline career of using Spike as her own personal human vibrator, all the while moaning about how he was doing those awful things to her. My loathing for her knows no bounds, which is why I hope to God Spike chooses Angel in the Big Triangle To Come. Heh.

[kitanotjames.livejournal.com]

I didn't get the hotness much. Don't care that Buffy was 'using' him to get off, eh, whatever, pot kettle. But it was just like 30 seconds of SMG doing porn. Like I said to Wisteria? She has a whole career ahead of her should she choose to go that way.

OTOH, come on. Didn't you ONCE think- man, what was James thinkin watchin her do that?? *G*

-Kita

[netweight]

I don't just want to jump out of nowhere going "can I archive it," because likely they won't know who I am

There are people who don't know who you are???? Where?? Where??

:P

Seriously now, it's like janedavitt said. Sometimes, it feels like we're pushing you. "Read my fic, read it, read it, please, please, pleeeeaaaase!" But yes, you're right, it would make your life much easier if we let you know when we've written something new. So count me in. ;)

As for feeling awkward asking to archive fic via the comments on LJ...
I don't know of anyone who wouldn't like to be archived at All About Spike, Laura, whatever the means you choose to let them know you want to. It's a total boost to the ego to know that you want a fic we've written because it's like the official 'stamp-of- approval'. I don't see any reason for you to worry about on this account.
But I guess you can always provide the link for your site in your comments if you don't know the author and that way you'll avoid having to go into detailed explanations or contact them privately. (Though if the work in question is just a snippet with no title/summary/rating/pairing/time period, this probably can't be helped. Gee! This really makes one appreciate all the trouble you go through! Makes me want to go annie on you and lick you all over eheh.)

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Aww. Thanks. :)

I dunno ... I kind of feel like I'm in a really weird position with my site. I know that there are a lot of people who respect it and would like to be archived there. But there are also many people outside of Spike fandom (and probably many people within Spike fandom) who've never heard of it. Then there are a lot of people who actively dislike it or are irritated by it. Like extreme Spuffy fans who think I've betrayed the OTP by archiving non-Spuffy fic. Or anti-redemptionists who think my site promotes the ruination/wussification of their badass Spike, or who think I'm a creepy squeally fangirl/serial killer lover because I'm a redemptionist.

So I get especially nervous when contacting someone new, because they could be one of those people who already have a negative opinion of my site, or who may form a negative opinion if I just pop out of nowhere asking to archive without providing an explanation.

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

But now it's so often this gray area and I never know whether I should ask or not. There's always "this is snippet" or "this was a dream" or "this is an idea I might follow up." Or "this is a meme response" or "I wrote this to cheer up someone" or "this is totally unbeta-ed" or "this might be part of a larger story" or whatever. Sometimes there's a title; sometimes there isn't. Sometimes there are story notes, sometimes there aren't.

Laura, honestly? It never occurs to me that you might be interested in archiving my little mini-fics. If you want 'em, give a holler, and I'll clean them up and send them on. :)

[zyrya]

I'm with you on the Smashed footage. But then, all the Spuffy sex in season 6 is profoundly unerotic to me because while JM has smouldering chemistry with anyone and anything, SMG most emphatically does not. The Spike/Anya scene in Entropy has more sexual magnetism than all the Spuffy scenes combined. And Smashed is particularly egregious: Buffy looks like she's undergoing a painful medical procedure, and Spike looks like he's concussed. Which, after falling through the floor, he probably is.

Archiving and "getting" Smashed

[(Anonymous)]

First, I want to thank you for the tremendous job you do and the wonderful, invaluable archive that is AllAboutSpike. As a fanfic reader, yours is the first place I look for great fanfiac reading about BtVS. I also want to congratulate you on archiving the material by time period, pairing, etc. Makes it so much easier to find what we are looking for than any other site. Keep up the good work, and thank you again, from the bottom of my little reader's heart!

Second, about the "Smashed" scene: I want to second what was written above: "The biggest impact for me in the un-cut scene is the intensity of Buffy. I mean, there's Spike laying there completely passive, and Buffy is going to town on him. To me it makes the confrontation in "Wrecked" that much more condemning for Depresso-Buffy. It also clarifies her guilt over the situation. She's got nobody to blame except herself and she was so into it." Definitely! Poor Buffy! she gets her rocks off; she beats the guy; and he, stupid stud, keeps coming back for more! Tells me way more than I wanted to know about Human William's relationships with women and Spike's relationships with Angel and Dru.

Sorry about the rant. ;-\ Just wanted you to know that I agreed with most of what's been said here.

makd

Re: Archiving and "getting" Smashed

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Hey,

Thanks for your comments! I appreciate it; glad to know you're enjoying the site.

Yes, I agree with your comments on the "Smashed" scene. I just don't see why anyone would find it sexy; I find it so horrifying and disturbing. I have no sympathy for Buffy whatsoever; as the scene makes clear, she's clearly using him, of her own free will. It's outrageous that she has the gall to blame *him* and ask why *she* let *him* do "those things" to her when it was in fact *her* doing them to *him* all along.